Re: Relegation.. : Wed Apr 16, 2014 7:45 am  

hindle xiii wrote:

Just to pick up and run with a couple of points made;

Yes, Wakefield are struggling, possibly because they are sticking by an underperforming coach, I question whether we should "get the jump on them" and make a change first.

Secondly, Powell is doing a cracking job at Castleford, and is doing so because the Tigers got rid of Millward.

Lastly, I don't want to get rid of Cummins, but I don't want to see the side relegated even more. And while there's a lot of love for Francis from the fans, it really could be a case of the nice guy finishing last.

All I'm advocating is that we learn from our past mistakes - boy do we have a lot to learn from - and remember how we stuck by McNamara. A more experienced coach to at least offer advice to Cummins should be an option to seriously consider, maybe there's something an older head would see that Francis can't right now.

There are alarming similarities between FC and Mcbanana, not least we don't seem tough enough. However, given the resources at his disposal and the utter chaos he's dealt with it seems a wholly premature comparison.

I wanted Powell to be given the Bulls job but the emotion and the circumstances pushed it Fc's way and but for the mayhem we'd be further up the table, no question.

Whists it too soon in my view who would you go with. Mark Aston?

Re: Relegation.. : Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:05 am  

hindle xiii wrote:

You've answered the bit in bold with the sentence before. Loan deals aside do you assume there are better players available that we can afford?!

All in all, we're most definitely hamstrung by stigma as much as anything when it comes to anyone coming in. *sigh*

You are right "better" players either aren't available or unaffordable - but I mean't to suggest that just having a few extra "average" guys in the squad would provide injury cover, put a bit of pressure on for places

Re: Relegation.. : Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:05 am  

M@islebugs wrote:

There are alarming similarities between FC and Mcbanana, not least we don't seem tough enough. However, given the resources at his disposal and the utter chaos he's dealt with it seems a wholly premature comparison.

I wanted Powell to be given the Bulls job but the emotion and the circumstances pushed it Fc's way and but for the mayhem we'd be further up the table, no question.

Whists it too soon in my view who would you go with. Mark Aston?

Good question, even though some see him as a dinosaur I'd consider Brian Noble (current availability is a mystery). John Kear pokes his nose out as someone who can possibly breathe live into us. I'd love to see super Glenn as an assistant, or Mat Calland too but that could be just because he's an ex-player I thought of him. I can't really include the NRL merry-go-round as I don't know who's available barring Matthew Elliott and Cronulla man. There's definitely a few more I haven't thought of. Any of these would probably cost a pretty penny, money we probably don't have, but just because I can't definitively say who would fix our season doesn't mean I can't think a change could be a good thing!

[Bulliac]

Re: Relegation.. : Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:09 am  

hindle xiii wrote:

You've answered the bit in bold with the sentence before. Loan deals aside do you assume there are better players available that we can afford?!

All in all, we're most definitely hamstrung by stigma as much as anything when it comes to anyone coming in. *sigh*

Yeah, I think it's fair to ask who, in their right mind, and we're talking about players as good, or better, than we already have, is going to give up a steady job elsewhere to come to Odsal right now? For a while, at least until stability has begun to be the norm, we'll have to face the fact that players are going to think long and hard before committing to the Bulls.

Re: Relegation.. : Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:15 am  

Northernrelic wrote:

You are right "better" players either aren't available or unaffordable - but I mean't to suggest that just having a few extra "average" guys in the squad would provide injury cover, put a bit of pressure on for places

I agree in theory, I know we need 2 or 3 more players, props in particular, but adding average to average may not solve the problem. They may still miss the same tackles, give away the same penalties and still run the same poor lines that the current lads do. A change further up could (could) improve things for the current squad and make things that bit easier for the new recruits we need.

Re: Relegation.. : Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:17 am  

Bulliac wrote:

Yeah, I think it's fair to ask who, in their right mind, and we're talking about players as good, or better, than we already have, is going to give up a steady job elsewhere to come to Odsal right now? For a while, at least until stability has begun to be the norm, we'll have to face the fact that players are going to think long and hard before committing to the Bulls.

Whereas a coach, for example out of work or in a lower league, may "relish the challenge".

[Bulliac]

Re: Relegation.. : Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:19 am  

hindle xiii wrote:

Good question, even though some see him as a dinosaur I'd consider Brian Noble (current availability is a mystery). John Kear pokes his nose out as someone who can possibly breathe live into us.

I'm happy to stick with FC to be fair, but if there were to be a change, Kear is just the sort of man-manager who inspires his troops to run through brick walls for him, similar to the way of Peter Fox. I don't know what his "donnin' oil" talks are like, but if they could be bottled they'd be worth millions.

[Bulliac]

Re: Relegation.. : Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:29 am  

hindle xiii wrote:

Whereas a coach, for example out of work or in a lower league, may "relish the challenge".

Oh, absolutely -they've little to lose, to be fair. I mean they're hardly going to get the flak if we go down.

That said, I'm far from sure that there are many obvious candidates though, Kear excepted. Funnily enough, I'd guess he would definitely 'relish the challenge' as being right up his street - us against the world, up and at 'em, let's go get 'em - last one out is a cissie....

Re: Relegation.. : Wed Apr 16, 2014 8:59 am  

One of the biggest differences between Mabanana and FC is that, at the time, the majority of Bulls fans wanted rid of SM. This was the feeling for many a month, before the board finally realised and stood him down.

Where as if we look at FC, the majority of fans are happy for him to continue. Yes we may not be overly impressed with some of the antics that goes on for 80 minutes of a game, but look at the crap he has dealt with.

He has stayed through all the recent administrations, and managed to build a squad of players that genuinely don't want to leave the Bulls.

I have no doubts as to his persona with the players (regarding him as a Mr nice guy), as we have seen many players shown the door for not agreeing with his methods (Whitehead, Sammut, L'estrange etc.)

Would we be at the foot of the table with the squad he recruited over the summer? Personally, I don't think so. Losing his best 2 props, with little ability (out there) to replace them, is none of his own doing.

In my opinion, FC will not be the next Mcbanana, and even if we are relegated, I would not hold him responible for the Bulls demise. I'd be happy for him to continue his work in the next division down, but unfortunately, I think he may have bigger aspirations.

Re: Relegation.. : Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:16 am  

daveyz999 wrote:

One of the biggest differences between Mabanana and FC is that, at the time, the majority of Bulls fans wanted rid of SM. This was the feeling for many a month, before the board finally realised and stood him down.

Where as if we look at FC, the majority of fans are happy for him to continue. Yes we may not be overly impressed with some of the antics that goes on for 80 minutes of a game, but look at the crap he has dealt with.

He has stayed through all the recent administrations, and managed to build a squad of players that genuinely don't want to leave the Bulls.

I have no doubts as to his persona with the players (regarding him as a Mr nice guy), as we have seen many players shown the door for not agreeing with his methods (Whitehead, Sammut, L'estrange etc.)

Would we be at the foot of the table with the squad he recruited over the summer? Personally, I don't think so. Losing his best 2 props, with little ability to replace them, is none of his own doing.

In my opinion, FC will not be the next Mcbanana, and even if we are relegated, I would not hold him responible for the Bulls demise. I'd be happy for him to continue his work in the next division down, but unfortunately, I think he may have bigger aspirations.

I agree with all of that, and couldn't have put it better myself. The one "advantage" McNamara had was the lack of relegation, this time we don't, relegation is looming and I think Cummins' inexperience at times has been glaringly obvious. So I'd like to see some 'short term pain, long term gain' type management decisions to pull out every stop to stay in Super League. Going back 12 months it was this time last year we lost to Wigan (April 14) and only won one game - Salford - until Hull FC came to Odsal on July 19. We can't afford that run again.

For the record, I'm never discounting the turmoil faced by the squad over the last few seasons, that is simply impossible to do and the effect is immeasureable; but the world keeps on turning and come September two teams will go down, I would hate that to be us because we didn't exhaust every available avenue.