Re: Latest financial situation - all posts here : Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:50 pm  

bewareshadows wrote: Well this would seam to indicate that as a sporting team nothing changes. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/18609190 With this kinda of upside to liquidation, the fund raising seams to have been a waste of everyone's time. They could have liquidated months ago, the fans could have kept their cash (which could have been invested in the new company to keep or buy players), Bradford would have held onto their points and renegotiatied everyone's contracts to a better level. In a way there will be little long lasting impact of this on the bulls as a sporting club as they will just start again. Panic over it seams. You may lose some players, but it's not going to be the end of the Bulls after all. Happy days unless you gave the Bulls money!! Still begs a lot of questions, just off of the top of my head: 1) How would Newco be funded for the rest of the season? How would it fund its start up costs and working capital? 2) Presumably season tickets would be void and it would be £20 on the gate to watch predominably juniors being hammered? 3) How long would it take to set up Newco? What would happen during the inevitable void between the existing club folding and Newco starting up? Could Newco actually field a team against London, Leeds, Warry & Widnes? 4) Could a hastily cobbled together supporters trust ensure that it can immediately meet basic obligations such as having adequate insurance, medical cover and support for the players, and the hundreds of things that have to be attended to before a game could be staged? 5) Would the RFL still charge the same rent? 6) When would the decision over the where Newco would be playing next year be taken? 7) How would Newco fund itself during the close season? Dont expect many season tickets to be sold during Oct-Dec, fans will wait as long as possible to see if the club will be around in February 2013. To be honest this, if true, seems like desparation on the part of the RFL. Desparation to allow the Bulls to complete this season regardless of what happens afterwards, regardless of how weak a team we have to put out. Regardless of how much of a shambles it could turn into. Just to ensure that they do not have to expunge our results from the records and deal with the quirk of Leeds' Magic Weekend fixture.

bewareshadows wrote: Well this would seam to indicate that as a sporting team nothing changes. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/18609190 With this kinda of upside to liquidation, the fund raising seams to have been a waste of everyone's time. They could have liquidated months ago, the fans could have kept their cash (which could have been invested in the new company to keep or buy players), Bradford would have held onto their points and renegotiatied everyone's contracts to a better level. In a way there will be little long lasting impact of this on the bulls as a sporting club as they will just start again. Panic over it seams. You may lose some players, but it's not going to be the end of the Bulls after all. Happy days unless you gave the Bulls money!! Still begs a lot of questions, just off of the top of my head: 1) How would Newco be funded for the rest of the season? How would it fund its start up costs and working capital? 2) Presumably season tickets would be void and it would be £20 on the gate to watch predominably juniors being hammered? 3) How long would it take to set up Newco? What would happen during the inevitable void between the existing club folding and Newco starting up? Could Newco actually field a team against London, Leeds, Warry & Widnes? 4) Could a hastily cobbled together supporters trust ensure that it can immediately meet basic obligations such as having adequate insurance, medical cover and support for the players, and the hundreds of things that have to be attended to before a game could be staged? 5) Would the RFL still charge the same rent? 6) When would the decision over the where Newco would be playing next year be taken? 7) How would Newco fund itself during the close season? Dont expect many season tickets to be sold during Oct-Dec, fans will wait as long as possible to see if the club will be around in February 2013. To be honest this, if true, seems like desparation on the part of the RFL. Desparation to allow the Bulls to complete this season regardless of what happens afterwards, regardless of how weak a team we have to put out. Regardless of how much of a shambles it could turn into. Just to ensure that they do not have to expunge our results from the records and deal with the quirk of Leeds' Magic Weekend fixture.

Re: Latest financial situation - all posts here : Wed Jun 27, 2012 1:54 pm  

Gurus_Beard wrote:

That would work on an assumption of

1)that those who took up the tickets this year and last actively renew at the new increased figure (and what figure do you initially suggest as not being significantly price elastic)

2) that after this apocalyptic mess, fans still hold vast faith in the club

3) that new fans would be attracted to subsidise revenues even further

4) that we are doing the right things as a club to swap the armchair sports fan to an active sports fan. Sky is as much as our demon as our saviour given we are unable to convert most fans from home chair to stadium chair; and that as a sport is our greatest challenge.

Our biggest contention as a sport should be the abominable SKY broadcast deal the RFL 'negotiated' with Eddie Stobart. It is possible to live with an armchair fan philosophy only if the club divided monies from said headline deal some way significantly mitigate the major loss in spectator numbers. That is what we should have addressed as a collective and not being grateful for seeing a random picture of Jon Wilkin on a 18 wheel wagon going past Coventry.

The figure that I had in mind was based on an average season ticket price of £250.

If you can get 4,000 paying the average price, you have £1,000,000 coming into the club. This is feasible and certainly achievable, as I'm positive that we could sell that volume.

The big problem then would have to be, how to convince those that through tough economic reasons, simply can't afford the newly inflated costs.

[Bulliac]

Re: Latest financial situation - all posts here : Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:00 pm  

juliebull wrote:

Agree with GB, the Stobbart deal is commercially ridiculous.

I think that a buyer will be found, if it has not already, to save the club. The noises pre and post Admin are setting us up for a fire sale buyer.

Wonder if it's anyone we've heard of??

[Bulliac]

Re: Latest financial situation - all posts here : Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:16 pm  

Adeybull wrote:

And I remain very interested to hear from both parties regarding what information about Harris' contractual arrangements was actually provided before he was signed, since that remains for me the key issue, and the only reason I can deduce that could have undermined the "Mainstream Developments" defence that I felt was so strong for us. But I am very certain we'll never hear anything about that.

What the club knew before he was signed is the one big element of the whole farrago that I would really like to know. That a top business solicitor, who given his categorical statements at the time was pretty certain of his ground, could get it so wrong is really strange. I appreciate that the law is, famously, 'an ass' and that there are rogue decisions sometimes, but to have our case thrown out as it was by the judge shows something was seriously amiss. It shouldn't be forgotten that Harris's own legal team, reportedly,also said he was free to sign, so they got it wrong too. Somehow, I suspect this information will be 'redacted'.

Re: Latest financial situation - all posts here : Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:33 pm  

juliebull wrote:

Agree with GB, the Stobbart deal is commercially ridiculous.

I think that a buyer will be found, if it has not already, to save the club. The noises pre and post Admin are setting us up for a fire sale buyer.

I'm beginning to wonder if there's a newco lurking out there waiting for the green light. Is there any way of discovering if someone's registered the name of a new club with Company House (or whatever it's called) in the last week or so?

Re: Latest financial situation - all posts here : Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:50 pm  

The Chronicler of Chiswic wrote:

I'm beginning to wonder if there's a newco lurking out there waiting for the green light. Is there any way of discovering if someone's registered the name of a new club with Company House (or whatever it's called) in the last week or so?

There is, but in real terms the name of the New Co could be "It's Not The Moon Ltd" and when they take over the club officially, the name of the company is changed to (for example) Bradford Northern Bulls 2012 Ltd.

Re: Latest financial situation - all posts here : Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:55 pm  

I did a quick search for obvious names, 2 companies connected to the bulls, 1 connected to northern. All companies active.

Its difficult to find a newco as you need to know the exact name.

Re: Latest financial situation - all posts here : Wed Jun 27, 2012 2:56 pm  

Even in the current economic environment there are thousands of new companies registered every week, and I don't think there are any off the shelf companies with such helpful names as "Bradford Bulsl 2102 Ltd" or "Bradford Bulls - The Sequel" - so if there is someone out there you need them to confess in public - besides "We Hate Rhinos Limited" is already taken

Re: Latest financial situation - all posts here : Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:00 pm  

Cibaman wrote:

Still begs a lot of questions, just off of the top of my head:

There are alot of questions, however as a SL club the Bulls will still exist.

There are also somethings that will stop the player drain.

Quotas, unless the RFL allows other clubs to nab your quota players, these guys are mostly stuck with Bradford or nothing.

Salary Cap : I'm not an expert but there must be a few running at cap now, so getting additional players mid season will not be possible for these, and other clubs are not at cap for a reason, they can't afford it. So unless Bradfords new terms for players are so rediiculouslly low as to make it worth while for players to wait until next year to get paid by a new club, then they have the oppertunity to keep players who can't jump ship this year.

Revenue is key, with the debt liquidated along with the old club, would the player wages at reduced rates be covered by gate receipts?

How much of the stewarding is cuttable beyond getting into trouble with health and safety. Is stewarding and club staffing something that could be done by fans on match day to support newco?

There are only 4 home games between now and end of season for bulls

£20 * 10,000 (optimistically) * 4 games = £800,000 of revenue,

That's £200,000 per month of revenue if they can get the fans in, so can they make it work??? Surely someone could, with depleted debts and costs.

Re: Latest financial situation - all posts here : Wed Jun 27, 2012 3:02 pm  

The RFL could throw one of their "dispensations" into the mix to help with quota & salary cap for other clubs if they felt player welfare warranted it...