: Wed May 27, 2009 9:31 am  

Ajw71 wrote:

Dont know how you have come to that conclusion really.

There has been a gradual decline under the tenure of SM.

We have a squad with much more potential than it is showing. Most of the players arent bad players but they are playing like bad players at the moment. To me this says more about the coach than anyone else.

Probably the most worrying thing about all this is that the fans seem to be leaving in their droves. Granted this is not all down to SM but im sure watching a winning team wouldnt do any harm at all. Say what you like about glory hunters etc, people dont want to see teams who lose every week.

So I dont want to sound dramatic but yes it seems that SM could be damaging the club long term.

Obviously he doesnt mean to be a poor coach and I appreciate that they are trying to turn it around but how many more times can you take "I will turn it around" etc etc only to see it not happening on the pitch.

I was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt, I was sticking by him long after others had turned. Only a few weeks ago I cringed when I read the posts of people like Mystic Eddie.

But I dont believe he can now recover this position. This season is a write off, and we might as well start planning for next season now imo. We need someone with the motivational skills to drag us out of the hole. A fresh start.

I still don’t buy in to the “it’s all SM’s fault”.
I think the decline started before he was placed in charge. He has had to arrest that decline and try and stabilise the club (not on his own obviously), then begin to implement things to start the rebuilding process. This isn’t going to happen in a matter of weeks or months, it will be a number of years.
On this seasons performances, yes you would have liked to think we’d be going a little better. However, we are struggling for bodies; I know that is wheeled out too often as an excuse, but look at what’s been sat on the sidelines this season. Many of the top players have had spells out. I like to see how any business reacts to having a large percentage of its top earners sat in the canteen.

: Wed May 27, 2009 9:35 am  

Ajw71 wrote:

I was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt, I was sticking by him long after others had turned. Only a few weeks ago I cringed when I read the posts of people like Mystic Eddie.

Not to worry. You have finally seen the light.

: Wed May 27, 2009 2:55 pm  

Wigan Bull wrote:

I still don’t buy in to the “it’s all SM’s fault”.

And you never will.

It's got to the stage where everyday it's the same argument. Some people will back McNarama no matter what and others want him out.

The only thing i'd say is that the camp for wanting him out is growing and has recruited some of the more respected posters.

: Wed May 27, 2009 3:33 pm  

Wigan Bull wrote:

I like to see how any business reacts to having a large percentage of its top earners sat in the canteen.

As long as Solomona paid for his food I would be delighted.

: Wed May 27, 2009 9:41 pm  

Ajw71 wrote:

We need someone with the motivational skills

I'd rather prioritise long-term concerns than get hung up on the ten minutes before the game and at half-time. And that's where the knee-jerk criticism is valid. The failure of the Sack Mac contingent is to fully consider the whole picture. They want things sorted and they want it yesterday.

: Wed May 27, 2009 10:44 pm  

Wigan Bull wrote:

to start the rebuilding process...

I'm still at a loss to now precisely what rebuilding means in this context. Do we have to knock everything down first, because this seems to be what is happening? Much like all this positive tendency/negative tendency - what's negative about wanting a first team that plays with pride, consistently and performs somewhere near their potential, and how exactly is it positive to hold the 'nothing can be done' (because of finances/rebuilding etc) position as crowds and league position decline.

We all know that without a financial backer with clout and a notoriously precarious walk up audience things can slide quickly. What impact do you think a second half of the season that is anywhere near the first half will have on season ticket sales, and how exactly will that be offset by some fictional rebuilding, particularly when the coach admits he doesn't know how to get the best from the players he has?

: Wed May 27, 2009 11:07 pm  

af wrote:

I'd rather prioritise long-term concerns than get hung up on the ten minutes before the game and at half-time. And that's where the knee-jerk criticism is valid. The failure of the Sack Mac contingent is to fully consider the whole picture. They want things sorted and they want it yesterday.

I am considering the whole picture...

2 Seasons Ago...average

Last Year...average

This season...way below average

Recruitment...in the main poor

Attendances...down

What else should I considering?

I mean I havent got access to backroom etc so all I can really go on is results and performances and what I see and Im not liking what I see.

You obviously want SM to stay, fair enough I thought the same 2 weeks ago but there has to come a time when you draw the line.

How many years should we give him?

: Thu May 28, 2009 1:28 am  

Ajw71 wrote:

I am considering the whole picture...

2 Seasons Ago...average

Average? 2007? - finished a close 3rd - winning only 3 points less than the unbeaten Saints? That's "average"? Er, I don't think so. How quickly some memories fade!

Ajw71 wrote:

Last Year...average

This season...way below average

...

In connection with that, and the question about what constitutes rebuilding, we have been blessed with a fine dynasty in SL but here's the 2005 Final squad:-

Michael Withers - GONE
Leon Pryce - GONE
Ben Harris - GONE
Shontayne Hape - GONE
Lesley Vainikolo - GONE
Iestyn Harris - GONE
Paul Deacon
Jamie Peacock - GONE
Ian Henderson - GONE
Stuart Fielden - GONE
Paul Johnson - GONE
Brad Meyers - GONE
Lee Radford - GONE

Robbie Paul - GONE
Jamie Langley
Adrian Morley - GONE
Joe Vagana - GONE

I'd just make the point, which I've made before, and no doubt will have to make again, that if you almost completely dismantle a title winning side, it's the end of an era. You need to deal with this fact.

Now, if you then go on and argue why didn't we scour the globe and buy up another title-winning squad, I'd just tell you life ain't like that. You can't buy a title. You could of course point out that all the other teams, bar Leeds, also failed to construct a team to win the title, or even challenge Leeds/Saints' current hegemony - but that would be too realistic.

You could ask, why, given that pretty much the entire title winning squad is gone, didn't McNamara just go out and replace them all, man for man, with an equally title-winning squad. I'd say anyone who thinks, or thought, that Bradford had some god-given right to always win everything, or perennially keep challenging for 1-2, was either a child or a lunatic. But that's the reason we aren't a top team any more- it's a 95% different team, and that's how it goes.

The squad we do now have should, of course, have done much better in terms of results, in terms of some games and in terms of parts of other games, but recruitment, which "in the main" has brought in players of the calibre of Morrison, Menzies, Tadulala, Worrincy, Lynch etc. may be alot of things but "poor" is just silly.

Why the squad we have got has spluttered and underachieved this year as it has is a good and valid question, but you won't be helped in looking for the answer if you overlook the facts or ignore the obvious.

: Thu May 28, 2009 7:03 am  

af wrote:

The failure of the Sack Mac contingent is to fully consider the whole picture.

If the whole picture includes dwindling crowds, embarrassing results, poor recruitment, increased apathy from the support and complete lack of confidence in the coach, then I reckon that a lot of people have done exactly that, as often gets mentioned on here.

He has also been given the credit for his work in emphasising the youth policy and we will see if that does bear fruit in time I guess.

It is also widely accepted that we are not exactly rolling in cash at the moment, Odsal is a drain on the resources and the OSV is less likely to been seen in existence than the Loch Ness Monster.

We have also been told by the Chairman that we are spending full cap so we cannot really use that as an excuse, and therefore, again this raises questions about the quality of recruitment and/or whether the money is being badly used.

I also accept that we have had injuries to the likes of Morrison, Solomona, Lynch, Nero etc but all clubs get injuries so, as unfortunate as it is, we have to deal with it and get the best out of what we have at our disposal.

Which raises another point. As we all know, I have to do my majority of watching of RL on Sky, and Bradford are obviously no exception to this. This is where I am less able to comment but the general view on here is that the effort that is getting put in is not really good enough and questions will rightly be raised about this.

So, that is my take on the situation and if there is anything else in the picture that I am not aware of, perhaps you would like to let us know?

: Thu May 28, 2009 8:06 am  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Michael Withers - GONE
Leon Pryce - GONE
Ben Harris - GONE
Shontayne Hape - GONE
Lesley Vainikolo - GONE
Iestyn Harris - GONE
Paul Deacon
Jamie Peacock - GONE
Ian Henderson - GONE
Stuart Fielden - GONE
Paul Johnson - GONE
Brad Meyers - GONE
Lee Radford - GONE

Robbie Paul - GONE
Jamie Langley
Adrian Morley - GONE
Joe Vagana - GONE

There are 3 reasons why we haven't been able to replace those players:

1) Money - it simply cannot be the case that the current squad are being paid anything like those players, surely?

2) Youth development -that squad had strong core of Bulls developed players. We're currently paying a hefty price for the failure to sustain that from 2000 to 2006.

3) Recruitment - I do think it has generally been poor. Our success from 1997 to 2005 owed a lot to inspired recruitment of hidden gems such as Withers, Gartner, forshaw & Anderson. Of our recent sigings, only Morrison (targeted initiallly by Noble) has proved to be a consistently better player than was expected. The others have been extremely inconsistent.