Re: Cas 34 Bulls 30, all post-match discussion here : Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:00 am  

mystic eddie wrote:

What a load of nonsense. Just another excuse really for abject failure and the worrying thing is that people believe it!

Our problem is lack of ability. We are full of decidedly average players hence why we are as bad as we are. Losing is habitual because we are rubbish and no other reason.

Change of tack from last year where it was the coach's fault.

Re: Cas 34 Bulls 30, all post-match discussion here : Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:31 am  

Bull Mania wrote:

Potter, Cummings, St Hilaire, Medley & Barrow to collect thier P45's tomorrow. The club is cr@p from the first team to our (amazing?) juniors. Having a mass overall of playing staff yet again won't go us any good. Time for ALL the coaching staff to depart.

Mick this is the most explicit, but there are plenty more comments about the coaching in this and other threads eg the clearout one. I said it back in April, defence is the key, and if that was sorted the players fragile morale would be more robust. and defence is a combination of tactics and technique, both heavily the responsibility of the coaching staff. My prediction would be a partial change of assistant coaches, who to come in I don't know, hence the question, but defence has to be priority. A number of the signings were 1 year contracts to give Potter more of a squad this year so he could do his homework on players for next year and Lulia will hopefully be followed by some more similar signings, so the Potter year 2 squad should tell us more about the ambitions of the club. and whether the team will be able to defend a lead.

[Bullseye]

Re: Cas 34 Bulls 30, all post-match discussion here : Mon Jul 11, 2011 8:48 am  

When Potter was appointed there were plently of people, including me who were very pleased with it. I remain convinced that he is a good coach, his record before arriving shows that. However, the players records are less glowing, it's obvious that they're not up to it despite Potter's efforts. Had they ever shown they were half decent before I might have had more sympathy with them but they haven't, most are from clubs with losing cultures and it certainly shows.

The quality of the squad has been dropping since 2007 and proven players have been replaced with average/poor ones every year since. As that's gone on a losing culture has manifested itself. The hype around the young players has been proven to just be hype as the decent quality ones have mainly left and the others have caught the losing culture too.

I have said in the past that I suspect something more systemic is at the root of this. Morale is obviously very low. It's a huge job to sort out, especially with us being as skint as we are. I fear that too many players and staff are ready to make excuses and let their heads drop when things get tough. It certainly shows on the pitch at all levels from U18s up.

What do we do? Well perhaps a shake up of backroom staff is needed? Things are obviously going off the rails in the reserve grades and they've had a lot of investment. We struggle to attract big names from the NRL so its imperative we get the junior set up right. Maybe then we'll hang onto our better kids for a change.

As for the first team it's quality we need, across the field. That's going to be a long re-building job as we can't bring in 4 or 5 quality players much as I'd love us to. An improvement in the backs and half backs is paramount as is some mongrel in the pack.

Re: Cas 34 Bulls 30, all post-match discussion here : Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:35 am  

Can't disagree with most of that.

Last two seasons, received wisdom was to blame the head coach for everything. Yet a change of head coach, a change of many of the playing staff and a dramatic improvement in the marketing effort (with very limited resources), has led to zero improvement. Just more of the same on the park.

Some of us argued that the problem went far deeper than just the head coach - people were attacking symptoms, not causes. Derided by many, I suggest this season suggests we were the ones who were correct?

That said, some us of - including me - argued that much of the problem was primarily down to lack of financial resources (and worse), and I still believe that to be the biggest issue. However, some others of us - including Bullseye but less so me - also argued that money could not account for all the malaise. However, it becomes increasingly clear that that too must be the case, that my argument that money was the key to it all looks increasingly simplistic, and that Bullseye and others (put Red in that category, too) made a strong argument.

Potter is reported today as indicating that another end-of-season clearout looks on the cards. Maybe somethibng radical is needed - nothing else appears to have worked. But, again, we come down to financial resources. One day it will come out how some clubs have managed to assemble the squads they have, supposedly within the cap. Sadly, we do not seem to be able to emulate them.

Re: Cas 34 Bulls 30, all post-match discussion here : Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:36 am  

Is everything lost?

I don't know. In many ways you can look at a team like Catalan and see a team that finished bottom last year and are now challenging the top 4 teams and look a real threat coming into the end of the season.

How was this achieved with a relatively similar squad to one that finished bottom? At the looks of things, this has been achieved by some quality coaching and a few good aquisitions - Scott Dureau a prime example.

Imagine if we'd had Dureau rather than Herbert? Herbert isn't as bad as everyone is making out, but Dureau looks to be high quality from what I've seen of him.

This season has gone. Andrew Bennett must wonder what the hell he let himself in for and worked wonders pre-season with the pledge and marketing throughout the year. It will be a hell of a feat to pull it off again, but to be honest, I think we'll get similar numbers next year if the pricing remains the same. Most people will pay £60 for a ticket as they'll go to a few games at least (Leeds, Wigan, whoever we get opening game) and it's then paid for itself.

We need a pick me up - that's a given. Can we pull off a well known signing from down under? Who knows, we could sure as hell do with one.

The back down in signing Leon looks as though it was a worse idea that originally thought. He's not the messiah, (in fact he can be a very naughty boy), but he will drag people in with him being a local lad and from our most successful teams in recent memory to help bring the feelgood factor. He's also a pretty handy player to have around when he's fit and on the field.

The youngsters are worrying the hell out of me, I'll be honest. We are getting some major hidings at all levels lower down. I can't see how on earth these guys are some of the best available given these results. OK, we may have a few future superstars knocking around at lower level, but they sure as hell won't want to play for us if every level they play at we get demolished. It's off to Wigan, Leeds, Wire and Huddersfield they go......

In summary, WHOEVER we bring in to play seem incapable of getting results. We've had some major player changes over the last few years and nothing seems to work. The coach was changed though as was the number two this year. SO WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG THAT WE CAN'T SEE????

Re: Cas 34 Bulls 30, all post-match discussion here : Mon Jul 11, 2011 9:59 am  

We often flatter to deceive, and I don't discount the good rugby we have played or the good results we have had. That said, compared with almost all our peers, across a season, we are indeed rubbish.

I never subscribed to the view that McNamara is a dud nor do I think Potter is a dud. And in Potter's case he does have some previous that strongly supports at least a fair level of ability. He, as McNamara before him, cannot escape his share of the responsibility for the debacles over which he is presiding, but now, as under McNamara, it is clear to me that our problem is the players.

This problem is a mixture of players who are not good enough, players who some of the time don't put it all in, players who we are told regularly fail to follow the game plan their coach has given them, and players who regularly show an alarming lack of discipline and ball control. On the evidence of recent weeks, as well, players who are nowhere near as fit as their peers from any other team you could name, so they are (or look to be) fscked at 60 minutes.

I am also sure that a big part of the state of the squad is our disastrous transfer policy, where guys like Wardle, Atkins, Patrick are let go yet walk straight into starting spots at a top-4 sides; lunatic decisions like those to release Morrison and especially Menzies. I know that this has been going on for years, but it doesn't make me feel any happier when I see old boys of ours doing the business on the telly week in week out. One of our biggest mistakes, Jamie Peacock, may be past his best now but he would never have left. (Old timer Ian Henderson is doing OK!). Herbert may be quietly playing OK, but he isn't what we need right now yet week after week Deacon has still been doing it for Wigan. We can't find a stand-off for love nor money but Chris Bridge is doing it for Warrington, and Leon has done OK at Saints.

I am not even arguing that every single one should still be here, obviously circumstances change and you can't please everyone, or keep everyone, but even with just Morrison and especially Menzies still on board, our team would be a different proposition, and the young players would have had the best examples to follow, and top on- and off- field leadership. I have never seen either Menzies' or Morrison's heads go down, and our defence wouldn't be leaking like an incontinent donkey.

So end of season clearouts there may be - but the job of replacing who we've lost with players of at least some quality is not going to be an easy trick. If we somehow managed to do it, and had a season with a top 6-7 finish (say) - would that make Potter a good coach?

[Bullseye]

Re: Cas 34 Bulls 30, all post-match discussion here : Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:08 am  

Bradford Badger wrote:

Is everything lost?
I don't know. In many ways you can look at a team like Catalan and see a team that finished bottom last year and are now challenging the top 4 teams and look a real threat coming into the end of the season.
How was this achieved with a relatively similar squad to one that finished bottom? At the looks of things, this has been achieved by some quality coaching and a few good aquisitions - Scott Dureau a prime example.

Excellent point. Catalans were a side going backwards. They’d appointed a poor coach in Walters who’d taken them backwards. They bring in Waterhouse who brings the players together and who makes a couple of astute signings. I think the decision made by Waterhouse to make the side’s 1st language French and to foster a better team ethic really shows. Look at the contrast in enthusiasm from Catalans this year compared with last. We need some of that across our organisation.

Another example to follow this season is our opponents from yesterday. I was impressed by the belief and enthusiasm they showed, never giving in. They’re a club with similar finances to us yet have overtaken us on the field. I know we’re had financial challenges, Harris case and all but we need to look at how to overcome these obstacles instead of making excuses. Cas have a host of excellent young players Arundal, Milner, Clark, Owen etc and have held onto them. They’ve recruited within their means too brining in Orr and Emmitt to great effect. On paper they have one star but the rest are kids and average players, not unlike ourselves. The difference seems to be in their attitude and cultiure.

I feel it’s the attitude and culture at fault at Bradford. We need players to take responsibility for their performances and take a long look at themselves. The playing career is short and I’m sure they want to look back at some achievements in the future. They’re not going to manage that unless they adopt a much better attitude. The coach can have a big influence on that. I see how Maguire shook things up at Wigan and got previously inconsistent players playing at a much higher level. We need some of that. We crumble at the first sight of pressure. I’ve never seen such mentally weak side in nearly 30 years, yet I believe it could be different and it needn’t cost the earth.

Re: Cas 34 Bulls 30, all post-match discussion here : Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:17 am  

hate hearing people slate lynch
he has done wonders for bulls and has taken our failure to make play offs x 2 years on his shoulders as he is the captain of the shower of sh&t that we have (a handful of players not all of them i may add)
he has gotten us valuble tries and for people to refer to him the way they have been in a joke. Burgess (may be doing OK but play him for the time lynch does and he would be blowing out of that fat a$$
also scruton is just coming back from injury and illness. koppy is having to carry the can by playing longer and covering lose forward- as is hargreaves because donaldson is not good enough. please respect the role lynch plays as yes he has been dropping the ball, knocking on etc but he is a grafter and plays longer than a lot of bulls players could even dream about. he is also getting on and bulls should really be limited his game time not expecting him to play the long spells he does at present

Re: Cas 34 Bulls 30, all post-match discussion here : Mon Jul 11, 2011 10:52 am  

All we and good but if said player needs resting is he then captain material ? A captain in my opinion needs to be on the pitch rallying the players all the time especially when coinfidence is as shot as ours is

Re: Cas 34 Bulls 30, all post-match discussion here : Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:47 am  

Bullseye wrote:

Excellent point. Catalans were a side going backwards. They’d appointed a poor coach in Walters who’d taken them backwards. They bring in Waterhouse who brings the players together and who makes a couple of astute signings. I think the decision made by Waterhouse to make the side’s 1st language French and to foster a better team ethic really shows. Look at the contrast in enthusiasm from Catalans this year compared with last. We need some of that across our organisation.

If Trent Robinson is no longer coaching Catalans I would give him a try at Odsal
Seriously & simplistically though, it shows what a coach can do with largely the same set of players who have failed. I was/am one who rated Potter so am struggling for answers. It's not just that you are losing, it is the way you are doing it & the negative way you are playing.