Re: Cas 34 Bulls 30, all post-match discussion here : Mon Jul 11, 2011 11:53 am  

MARKG wrote:

All we and good but if said player needs resting is he then captain material ? A captain in my opinion needs to be on the pitch rallying the players all the time especially when coinfidence is as shot as ours is

you are right MARKG a prop cannot possibly be a captain as he isnt on the pitch for the whole or majorty of the game. i feel someone like l'estrange or diskin who is a loud vocal character should lead the bulls, someone who is not afraid to dish out some hard words to those letting us down week in week out with penalties, handling errros and dropped balls.
lynch is a superb ambasador for bulls but he needs to be given a rest now while the youngsters do the graft and he can back them up

Re: Cas 34 Bulls 30, all post-match discussion here : Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:03 pm  

bullbreath wrote:

i feel someone like l'estrange or diskin who is a loud vocal character should lead the bulls,

The same L'estrange & Diskin who have spent half the time that Lynch has spent on the pitch?

Re: Cas 34 Bulls 30, all post-match discussion here : Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:04 pm  

bullbreath wrote:

you are right MARKG a prop cannot possibly be a captain as he isnt on the pitch for the whole or majorty of the game. i feel someone like l'estrange or diskin who is a loud vocal character should lead the bulls

Do you see the problem there?

Re: Cas 34 Bulls 30, all post-match discussion here : Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:39 pm  

tigertot wrote:

The same L'estrange & Diskin who have spent half the time that Lynch has spent on the pitch?

get a vice captain..unlike langley- sick note!! who can fill in if the captain has an injury. Im not sure who to suggest as my guess would be BK?

Re: Cas 34 Bulls 30, all post-match discussion here : Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:00 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

We often flatter to deceive, and I don't discount the good rugby we have played or the good results we have had. That said, compared with almost all our peers, across a season, we are indeed rubbish.

I never subscribed to the view that McNamara is a dud nor do I think Potter is a dud. And in Potter's case he does have some previous that strongly supports at least a fair level of ability. He, as McNamara before him, cannot escape his share of the responsibility for the debacles over which he is presiding, but now, as under McNamara, it is clear to me that our problem is the players.

This problem is a mixture of players who are not good enough, players who some of the time don't put it all in, players who we are told regularly fail to follow the game plan their coach has given them, and players who regularly show an alarming lack of discipline and ball control. On the evidence of recent weeks, as well, players who are nowhere near as fit as their peers from any other team you could name, so they are (or look to be) fscked at 60 minutes.

I am also sure that a big part of the state of the squad is our disastrous transfer policy, where guys like Wardle, Atkins, Patrick are let go yet walk straight into starting spots at a top-4 sides; lunatic decisions like those to release Morrison and especially Menzies. I know that this has been going on for years, but it doesn't make me feel any happier when I see old boys of ours doing the business on the telly week in week out. One of our biggest mistakes, Jamie Peacock, may be past his best now but he would never have left. (Old timer Ian Henderson is doing OK!). Herbert may be quietly playing OK, but he isn't what we need right now yet week after week Deacon has still been doing it for Wigan. We can't find a stand-off for love nor money but Chris Bridge is doing it for Warrington, and Leon has done OK at Saints.

I am not even arguing that every single one should still be here, obviously circumstances change and you can't please everyone, or keep everyone, but even with just Morrison and especially Menzies still on board, our team would be a different proposition, and the young players would have had the best examples to follow, and top on- and off- field leadership. I have never seen either Menzies' or Morrison's heads go down, and our defence wouldn't be leaking like an incontinent donkey.

So end of season clearouts there may be - but the job of replacing who we've lost with players of at least some quality is not going to be an easy trick. If we somehow managed to do it, and had a season with a top 6-7 finish (say) - would that make Potter a good coach?

I believed SM should have been sacked earlier but otherwise this is a fair assessment. Whilst coaches must have a strong say on the overall composition of the squad there must also be a level above them which has a longer term or broader remit. This level has failed catastrophically, not as you say in every single situation where there are always mitigating circumstances, but viewed in the whole over many years. The financial issues have imnpacted but alongside the players who have left Brough, Myler, Robinson, Orr, Brown have all been available cheaply I suspect, prior to establishing themselves as very good players at other clubs and this is only in the halfback position. We simply called it wrong.

I don't see what's to be gained from another wholsesale clearout or changing coach unless we have a real vision of what we're replacing them with and to be honest, I don't think we have that skillset at the club.

[Bullseye]

Re: Cas 34 Bulls 30, all post-match discussion here : Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:02 pm  

tigertot wrote:

If Trent Robinson is no longer coaching Catalans I would give him a try at Odsal
Seriously & simplistically though, it shows what a coach can do with largely the same set of players who have failed. I was/am one who rated Potter so am struggling for answers. It's not just that you are losing, it is the way you are doing it & the negative way you are playing.

Re: Cas 34 Bulls 30, all post-match discussion here : Mon Jul 11, 2011 1:14 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

:oops:

Accept lower/mid-table mediocrity. There's less pressure then.

Re: Cas 34 Bulls 30, all post-match discussion here : Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:06 pm  

JUDGE666 wrote:

Complete Rubbish Mr Potter you're clearly not the man for this poison chalice, order a taxi please...And to a few of you Cas fans who celebrated like you'd won the league, get a life you'll not come close to winning anything for a very long time (just like us)

Bit petty that mate ,the reason Cas fans were celebrating was because thats what we do and the two points were vital in our quest for a top 8 place ,if you look at the league you 'll see that we (cas) are now four points clear of HULL KR in ninth place .,nobody in Cas is expecting to win owt but thats the way we like it .
FWIW I was impressed with the Bulls defence in parts but you did seem to tire easily,Cant believe how big young Tom Burgess is.

Delboy66(aye of the tigers fanzine)

Re: Cas 34 Bulls 30, all post-match discussion here : Mon Jul 11, 2011 6:23 pm  

delboy66 wrote:

FWIW I was impressed with the Bulls defence in parts but you did seem to tire easily,

Delboy66(aye of the tigers fanzine)

You're very easily impressed then Delboy

Re: Cas 34 Bulls 30, all post-match discussion here : Mon Jul 11, 2011 7:52 pm  

I agree very much that the point about the turnaround at Catalans in a relatively short space of time is a great point.

I can understand the calls for a mass clearout, even though financially everyone knows, realistically, that isn't a possibility - there may be several departures and hopefully arrivals, (always is) but "mass" just can't be done.

Having said that, the points which mainly grab my interest are:-
a) my view that our young players would have been, and could be, much better if they had one or more really inspirational role models on and off the pitch (and I won't regurgitate my whinges about the lunatic release of Menzies, or indeed Morrison, but what a fkin difference they would be making)
b) the fact that despite all our faults (and they are many) we ARE capable of playing some good stuff, at times, we CAN defend exceptionally well, at times, and we HAVE got some good results amid the dross. The season is doom and gloom, but it is the ultimate overall results - caused largely by our abysmal defence, followed by inability to retain possession - which cause my despond, and not the level of play as such, which I think at many times has been far better and more entertaining than last season, even if the league position isn't.

So, how to sum up; well, i don't think we actually need a wholesale clearout. I do believe Potter is a far better coach than our league position suggests. And I suspect that getting the right men into the spine of the team would produce a disproportionately large improvement. If we can get them. As opposed to crazily getting rid of them.

Don't forget that one such leader by example is L'Estrange, and he will still be here next year. The light at the end of the tunnel is a faint one, and may still be a train, but I do think that relatively few but key acquisitions, could actually make us a competitive side in terms of Top 8. The question is, of course, having got rid of a load, whether we can now somehow find any available.

But I believe that such as Whitehead, Olbison, Crookes, Raynor, Platt and Addy could develop into much better and critically more consistent players with less of the responsibility on their shoulders and with someone's lead to follow. I think the consensus is that Lulia will beef up the centres and that can't but help.

I know we have been very critical and understandably so but we do still have some genuine class in the squad with the likes of Kearney, L'Estrange, and Elima. You could mention Lynch (though not of late); Scruton could come back better next time; and there is no reason why if we can get Whitehead and Donaldson sorted out in close season those two in particular could not be stand out players for us. Also Langley seems to be taking some stick, and maybe he has become injury prone, but there's no denying that a fit Langley is a big asset for us and him and L'Estrange improve the defence no end.

So we look pretty broken at the moment. But maybe it would be no more difficult a task to fix than were Catalans, with the right key personnel fit and in place. At least, that is what I'm hoping.