: Mon Aug 04, 2008 4:49 pm  

mystic eddie wrote:

Well they do say that "it takes one to know one."

Maybe you could start one of your polls?

[Bullseye]

: Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:04 pm  

Tiger Beer wrote:

You may well have a point but have you stopped to think that the reason so many players are not up to the standard that were here before is because McNamara is working to different set of terms and conditions to his predecessor. The annual loss of half a million a year, the cuts in budgets to make up for that, the consistent breaching of the salary cap, which both Caisley and Noble were the chief culprits, the massive salaries and long term deals to to Harris, Newton,Vainikolo, etc, the total lack of investment in junior players have all had to be addressed and that would have been the same under any other Coach or Chairman. You may think McNamara is an idiot and a poor coach but do you honestly think the would prefer to sign James Evans than Matt King, or Ben Jeffries over Michael Monaghan. the answer is that the Bulls can't afford to 'buy' any anymore and have to pick up what is available and out of contract. The club is in a rebuilding stage and it will take some time to see the light at the end of the tunnel. Sacking the Coach is not the answer without a massive investment in players, which would have to include under the counter payments - which two notable clubs seem to be getting away with. But the Bulls don't have that sort of money and if they did they would fall foul of all the ususal idiots on here who castigated them the last time they breached the salary cap. Engage brain before mouth; or in most of your cases, before keyboard.

I think most people know the Bulls can't afford to buy (though we did shell a lot out for Solomona) however there have been plenty of players who have joined other clubs on free transfers that would've improved the Bulls. Whatuira and Jake Webster spring to mind immediately. I don't think these two are at the clubs that you obliquely accuse of fiddling the cap.

While we might be constrained by the cap I find it hard to believe that the departures of Fielden, Peacock, Pryce, Paul, Hape and Vainikolo haven't freed up some space for some replacements of similar quality. Instead we've signed average performers who surely must be on less money.

The only explanation I can come to is that we're not spending the full cap anymore. Yet Hood tells us this isn't the case. So are we really spending £1.7m on the present squad? If so we really are paying some players well over the odds.

If we're not paying the full cap its time to come clean. It'd certainly explain a lot. If we are then I despair at the standard of recruitment. While the juniors undoubtedly needed investment the likes of the Donaldsons, Tates and Burgesses will take years to come through. By then we may be a lower table side and not able to hang onto them unless the current decline is stopped.

: Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:43 pm  

Bullseye wrote:

While we might be constrained by the cap I find it hard to believe that the departures of Fielden, Peacock, Pryce, Paul, Hape and Vainikolo haven't freed up some space for some replacements of similar quality. Instead we've signed average performers who surely must be on less money.

any money freed up by pryce and paul was used by noble to bring in his last batch of recruits, mckenna and bai spring to mind although there were a couple of others too.
Fielden was never on a massive wage which was one of reasons he left iirc, and any money freed up was used on solomona.

Vainikolo's wage was used to bring in tupou and remainder used to fund jeffries,godwin,nero,sykes,finnigan and tadulala - remember we only had hendo,harris,st hilaire and mcavoy leaving last year so 5 out including les and 7 in. cant imagine st hilaire and mcavoy were on big money whereas only one of last years signings i'd imagine was relatively cheap would be finnigan and maybe godwin.

Hape's wage hasnt been used yet and I'd expect this to be available for signings next year. Big thing this year was sorting out court case and i'd imagine hape transfer fee went towards this.

: Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:53 pm  

Bully_Boxer wrote:

Maybe you could start one of your polls?

Appalling attempt.

: Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:44 pm  

mystic eddie wrote:

I intended buying it, typed Beaver into a google search, and found FAR MORE appealing reading material than a boring old book.

mystic eddie wrote:

:lol:

Appalling attempt.

Indeed.

: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:29 pm  

mat wrote:

any money freed up by pryce and paul was used by noble to bring in his last batch of recruits, mckenna and bai spring to mind although there were a couple of others too.

They aren't here now though are they? When they were those two, and Stanley Gene and Marcus St. Hilaire were producing performances streets ahead of plenty of the crock of sh*te turning out this year.

mat wrote:

Fielden was never on a massive wage which was one of reasons he left iirc, and any money freed up was used on solomona.

Indeed, the much vaunted "difference" as we chased his signature, the man to give that spark to lead to trophies. Good move that, obviously it's not the current regimes responsibility in any way.

mat wrote:

Vainikolo's wage was used to bring in tupou and remainder used to fund jeffries,godwin,nero,sykes,finnigan and tadulala - remember we only had hendo,harris,st hilaire and mcavoy leaving last year so 5 out including les and 7 in. cant imagine st hilaire and mcavoy were on big money whereas only one of last years signings i'd imagine was relatively cheap would be finnigan and maybe godwin.

More great use of money there eh? Replace 5 with 7 and the performance goes downhill.

mat wrote:

Hape's wage hasnt been used yet and I'd expect this to be available for signings next year. Big thing this year was sorting out court case and i'd imagine hape transfer fee went towards this.

Would this be the same sort of transfer fee banked for Vainikolo? I know some people do get paid for bending over and letting someone do as they want.

If you can't accept that a lot of McNamara's recruitment has been p*ss-poor then there isn't much point discussing it. Apparently he has had the full cap at his disposal, so he's messed up badly with this "quantity" approach, if he hasn't had the full cap then the chairman has wilfully misled the support. I know you're amongst the "see no evil hear no evil" brigade when it comes to the club, but even you've got to admit that one of those scenarios is the truth, and whichever one it is, it is unacceptable.

: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:40 pm  

There's spending to the salary cap and then there's spending to the salary cap.

: Mon Aug 04, 2008 8:49 pm  

maccas been spending to salary cap but 250k of that was tied up in harris plus at least 100k in hape who just wasnt interested this year. Solomona was brought in by macca and hasnt lived upto expectations agreed, but everyone was pretty pleased when we signed him.

Only one of this years signings who hasnt lived upto expectations is nero. godwin has been a bit quiet and sykes's defense has been poor but semi,jeffries finnigan have all been amongst our better signings. It's been some of our players from previous seasons who've had a quiet/poor season this year which has been a bigger problem ( and thats when they manage to get on pitch between injuries).

: Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:03 pm  

af wrote:

There's spending to the salary cap and then there's spending to the salary cap.

There's also wilfully misleading fans when the support base is low on confidence, not 100% convinced by those in charge of things and numbers are falling off worryingly, on the back of a distinct lack of entertainment.

I'd suggest that isn't a very good idea.

: Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:09 pm  

Asim wrote:

There's also wilfully misleading fans when the support base is low on confidence, not 100% convinced by those in charge of things and numbers are falling off worryingly, on the back of a distinct lack of entertainment.

I'd suggest that isn't a very good idea.

Yeah, and there's brutal honesty that might be misguided too. Some sort of middle ground has to be found and it is difficult to identify just what it is.

The club is in the schtum and the lack of 'rally round the club' sentiment on here is what I consider most worrying. Not much that can be done about that though.