Re: Signings 2020 : Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:34 am  

I think the more appropriate question to ask is what extra info has Chalmers given the rfl since we were put into special measures, which they are now in the process of reviewing.
And if he had this information available to give them, why the hell didn't he give them it at the same time as his original application so we could have stood a better chance at avoiding all this mess?

Do people really believe that the rfl have put us into special measures for no reason other than spite? Come on. Their press release was petty and poorly timed but some of the blame for this mess absolutely rests at the door of our owner I'm afraid.

Re: Signings 2020 : Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:47 am  

There have been other clubs in special measures this year. Only 1 has the Rfl singled out and announced, in the middle of season ticket sales.
So the next question is, why would the Rfl single out one of its member clubs and deliberately try to damage their income?
I’m sure the Rfl would say it wasn’t deliberate, that was just them being transparent and they hadn’t thought of any secondary effect (bit like prorogation) but why weren’t they transparent with any other clubs?

Re: Signings 2020 : Thu Sep 19, 2019 11:58 am  

Nothus wrote:

Do people really believe that the rfl have put us into special measures for no reason other than spite? Come on. Their press release was petty and poorly timed but some of the blame for this mess absolutely rests at the door of our owner I'm afraid.

Not spite, and I also think Chalmers being the spokesman for the chairmen that voted against the middle 8 proposals and also telling the RFL they need to stop being incompetent and start to govern won't have helped his cause....
But basically, putting us in special measures is the only lever the RFL have left to try to force Chalmers to sell (or leave). So they've used it. Fortunately for Chalmers, Bulls ST money is still coming in steadily and I think he'll be able to force the RFL to blink first. I'm sure his chairmen supporters in SL and the championship will be pressurising the RFL to follow the rules as well.

Re: Signings 2020 : Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:32 pm  

You're entitled to your opinion I guess. For what it's worth, I don't agree with it.

Want to know what I think?
Chalmers has planned for us to leave Odsal for a while because he now has a firm grasp of the running costs and knew that it wasn't sustainable. Nothing wrong with this, and agree with him and think it's the correct call.
The arrangement with Dewsbury had clearly been finalised for a while, because Chalmers had the time to sort out all our 2020 season ticket info ready for the announcement. The remaining home games were then heavily marketed as being the last ever matches at Odsal in an attempt to boost the attendances/cashflow. Again nothing wrong with this but clearly planned for a while.
We publicly announced the move to Dewsbury as being done and dusted before this had been ratified by the rfl. If anyone is forcing someone's hand here, it's us with this stunt. Our season tickets went on sale almost immediately after this announcement iirc.
I don't think this left the rfl with much choice but to approve our move, especially since other clubs have relocated in the past without much issue. I believe the rfl felt compelled to release a statement because we did something similar first. Instead of following the procedure, we tried to force their hand. That is what sets this situation apart from the other clubs in special measures.

I hope Chalmers has got his sums right and whatever he has passed to the rfl gets this mess sorted, but all these conspiracy theories about the rfl having an axe to grind with Chalmers and leverage for Odsal leases is just a load of rubbish. More than that it's embarrassing and only brings more abuse this way from fans of other clubs when they read some of this stuff.

Re: Signings 2020 : Thu Sep 19, 2019 12:42 pm  

I don't think there's an axe to grind over the lease, I think basically all his "back seat driving" in the T&A on every major decision the RFL have made (or decided not to get involved in) over the past 2 years (or at least since Wood left) have made him a pariah and they don't need it and would like to see him gone. I also think the RFL believe he has not made good on some of his promises and I think Chalmers believes the RFL haven't made good on some of their promises. There's no common ground anymore (literally...) and Chalmers must have done his sums as we've kept HMRC happy for 3years and aren't in administration.

[Pumpetypump]

Re: Signings 2020 : Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:14 pm  

Nothus wrote:

all these conspiracy theories about the rfl having an axe to grind with Chalmers and leverage for Odsal leases is just a load of rubbish. More than that it's embarrassing and only brings more abuse this way from fans of other clubs when they read some of this self-centred nonsense.

Now now grumpy bum. You might not agree with the interpretation, but there are many that legitimately have come to the conclusion that the RFL are not merely the bumbling but benevolent entity some suggest. Set against their inept/sinister (depending on your mindset) interventions in our club over many years, you can see why such an opinion might take hold so I wouldn't call it rubbish or self-centred nonsense personally.

Re: Signings 2020 : Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:36 pm  

Nothus wrote:

Instead of following the procedure, we tried to force their hand. That is what sets this situation apart from the other clubs in special measures.

I'm fairly sure it's the conflict of interest that sets this apart.

As there is no transparency, I have no idea whether we followed procedure or not. I've no idea if the RFL said no to our request, then we forced their hand after that. Or whether we started it. Chalmers has said he's consistently refused to sign the lease. Now is that consistently for 3 years? Which must have given the RFL an inkling? Or he's misspoke and meant to say refused to sign a lease extension? Which does change things a bit.

The one opinion I have in all of this is that despite fans of other clubs saying we were bailed out by the RFL, the opposite is true. This taking on of the lease was a massive strategic blunder by the RFL and has caused significant long term damage to the Bulls and has been a significant drain of time, people and money for the RFL - which could have been spent better elsewhere for the good of the game as a whole.

Re: Signings 2020 : Thu Sep 19, 2019 1:49 pm  

Pumpetypump wrote:

Now now grumpy bum. You might not agree with the interpretation, but there are many that legitimately have come to the conclusion that the RFL are not merely the bumbling but benevolent entity some suggest. Set against their inept/sinister (depending on your mindset) interventions in our club over many years, you can see why such an opinion might take hold so I wouldn't call it rubbish or self-centred nonsense personally.

You can think that the governing body are rubbish at their job. But this isn't that. The theories on here are basically pointing at the sport's governing body being corrupt.

If I have to choose between a corrupt sporting governing body and the possibility of Chalmers half-assing his application, then I'm inclined to go with the latter.

Re: Signings 2020 : Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:01 pm  

Nothus wrote:

Do people really believe that the rfl have put us into special measures for no reason other than spite? Come on. Their press release was petty and poorly timed but some of the blame for this mess absolutely rests at the door of our owner I'm afraid.

In response to the question, I might be out there on my own with this... but yes I do!!!

The RFL have a proven track record of just making crap up on the spot and this current play is nothing different in my book.

Back in 2012, the RFL publicly stated that they bought Odsal as it was quote "an iconic stadium which needed to be preserved for the good of the sport". Fast forward 7yrs and the main tenant has vacated the ground due to the unreasonable costs involved with maintaining an aging and crumbling facility.

What do the RFL do now? Sell it? They can't otherwise they will expose themselves for the real reason they bought the ground. An investment with a steady income stream and ability to borrow against its value in hard times. It was never about the ground being iconic... it was a pure business opportunity.

However, now they have their hands tied as they cannot simply sell their investment for profit, not whilst there is a club called Bradford. And certainly not whilst they are maintaining the original lie spun in 2012... its still iconic don't you know.

So whats the plan? Squeeze the club until they are forced to return by undermining the clubs stability by releasing a cryptic statement suggesting that the club are financially unsound and therefore in special measures?

No new players (not at least until most of the decent ones are signed up elsewhere) resulting in a weakened team, not overly competitive and more likely to fail in the long run. So far this has failed with AC proving a stubborn opponent (with a track record of bluffing) but its certainly split the supporter base so its not completely dead in the water.

I firmly believe the RFL want one of two options long term...

1. Squeeze the club long enough to force the owner to pull out (win win for RFL... another chosen one, points deductions keep them down longer and hey why not remove some of the central funding whilst their at it boosting the RFL coffers).

or 2. Starve the club to death... club ceases to exist, and without a Bradford club the RFL have an excuse to be able to cash in on their investment.

Not completely blinkered to understand that the actual situation is somewhere in between mine and your theories but I do feel the RFL have more to answer for in general (the whole 7 year period since buying the lease for me) than the current administration of the club.

Re: Signings 2020 : Thu Sep 19, 2019 2:55 pm  

I think it's obvious that the RFL thought they held the strings and that AC would not dare up sticks. They borrowed against Odsal, he's done one. They can't sustain the ground so 'You can have a year'.

The RFL are in a financial mess so a year they can't blag any longer than this without an income on it, and maintenance of the ground is needed or it's losing value. If CBMDC ensure their tenant carries out any major repairs they are sunk. How many landlords let you shag up the place and walk away without making repairs?

In debt against their property with no income from it to maintain it. Yet they're crying financial irregularities against AC at the same time not learning from the Bulls 1.0 and 2.0 that the ground is a club killer.

So I think the RFL are in a panic. If they aren't they are truly stupid, AC doesn't have any emotional ties what so ever and is, in my view, less likely to blink.

What makes it clear for me is AC tells the RFL we can't afford Odsal so are cutting costs to stay on the right side of the line yet they pull the special measures move.

Pound to a pinch of poop if we were staying at Odsal and touching the forelock like good servants we'd have half the 2020 squad announced by now but they'd be Halifax's cast offs.