Re: Fewer clubs in SL - what is the rationale? : Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:42 am  

Starbug wrote:

You seriously think we can double our fan bases in a couple of years ? , and draw any kind of meaningful ' corporate / sugar daddy ' support in the Championships ?

Not going to happen

You would like to think that Fax/Leigh want Super League in the near future, Widnes achieved it so why can't other clubs? Without investment there will be no Super League for these clubs, however there is more potential for growth at Leigh than there is in Wales. Do you think there is a way in for Leigh / Fax?

I think Leigh could double their fan base in 2 years, absolutely.

Re: Fewer clubs in SL - what is the rationale? : Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:31 pm  

ExiledTiger wrote:

Jamie Peacock and other proponents of reducing the size of SL assume that there will be the same number of 'quality players' as there are now but condensed into 10 teams rather than 14 thus improving the standard of SL. This may be true in the short term but they also assume rather naively that in the long term the same number of 'quality players' will continue to come through the ranks. What they don't appreciate is that without a SL club on the doorstep kids in Cas for example may not be drawn to rugby league at all and promising ball players might end up in soccer or some other sport. This is of course the reason given for expanding the game with top-flight teams in London, France and Wales. This is a minority sport. If we don't protect and nurture what we already have we'll be over-run by the big boys.
I suspect there's a reason why Jamie Peacock is a rugby league prop and not a professor of philosophy. He should stick to what he's good at.

But Cas are just one of a million towns in the world. If Cas not having an SL team means kids in Cas wont play RL and it is imperative that kids in Cas play RL wouldn’t the same apply to every other town in the world. If we need an SL team in Cas don’t we also need one in Featherstone, Hunslet, Pontefract, Selby, Batley, Bingley, Garforth, Silsden, Dewsbury, Sowerby Bridge, Knottingly, Mirfield, Hebden Bridge, Hemsworth, Farsley, Morely, Wetherby. Guisley and a million other towns in the world. Im sure you can see how unworkable your argument is, we cannot have every settlement in the country with an SL presence, its ridiculous. If kids wont play RL because their city rather than their small town is has an SL team then we may as well give up now because it is something that will never, and should never happen.

Re: Fewer clubs in SL - what is the rationale? : Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:49 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

But Cas are just one of a million towns in the world. If Cas not having an SL team means kids in Cas wont play RL and it is imperative that kids in Cas play RL wouldn’t the same apply to every other town in the world. If we need an SL team in Cas don’t we also need one in Featherstone, Hunslet, Pontefract, Selby, Batley, Bingley, Garforth, Silsden, Dewsbury, Sowerby Bridge, Knottingly, Mirfield, Hebden Bridge, Hemsworth, Farsley, Morely, Wetherby. Guisley and a million other towns in the world. Im sure you can see how unworkable your argument is, we cannot have every settlement in the country with an SL presence, its ridiculous. If kids wont play RL because their city rather than their small town is has an SL team then we may as well give up now because it is something that will never, and should never happen.

Just to "flip" your arguement slightly. What do you think would happen to RL in Castleford without a pro team in the town ?
Kids need something to aspire to and in Cas (and other places), if you take away RL, it is left with a ski slope.
You appear to be well informed Smokey, therefore you will know just how many clubs there are, in and around Cas, that ultimately feed the pro team.
Take this away and the goal disappears, yes they could play for Leeds or Bradford or whoever, but those kids aspire to be Cas players.
You mention lots of towns in your list and although there are some obvious exceptions, many of these places are not "hotbeds" of RL as Csastleford is.

Re: Fewer clubs in SL - what is the rationale? : Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:32 pm  

I don’t agree that there is a huge difference between the amount of RL players in Dewsbury, Batley, Hunslet, Fev and their surrounding areas, and they survive as RL hotbeds without SL representation. In Leeds Rhinos we have one club, which represents a comparatively huge area and we don’t see Headingley as the only RL hotbed in the area.

Castleford are surrounded by Wakefield, Leeds, Bradford and Huddersfield. Surely that is enough clubs to see that Castleford can continue to have plenty of pathways and access to carry on being a hotbed.

Re: Fewer clubs in SL - what is the rationale? : Fri Feb 24, 2012 2:54 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

I don’t agree that there is a huge difference between the amount of RL players in Dewsbury, Batley, Hunslet, Fev and their surrounding areas, and they survive as RL hotbeds without SL representation. In Leeds Rhinos we have one club, which represents a comparatively huge area and we don’t see Headingley as the only RL hotbed in the area.

Castleford are surrounded by Wakefield, Leeds, Bradford and Huddersfield. Surely that is enough clubs to see that Castleford can continue to have plenty of pathways and access to carry on being a hotbed.

So if Leeds were to disappear from SL for whatever reason, does this mean RL in the city would be unaffected ?

Re: Fewer clubs in SL - what is the rationale? : Fri Feb 24, 2012 3:15 pm  

I don’t think that’s the comparison though is it. Leeds is a relatively huge area, representing a relatively huge area compared to Castleford. The question wouldn’t be would RL be affected in Leeds if the Rhinos disappeared it would be how does Leeds continue to produce players from across the city when there isn’t an SL team in Rothwell, Wetherby, Morley, Horsforth, Alwoodly, Pudsey, Bramley, Hunslet?

[Mild Rover]

Re: Fewer clubs in SL - what is the rationale? : Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:18 pm  

The clubs need to justify inclusion by what they offer, rather than what they need.

It's true that certain clubs offer more than others - If Wigan or Leeds disappeared, it'd be a bigger blow. But even then we'd move on and evolve.

At the moment, I think pretty much every club offers something worthwhile. If we really had to batten down the hatches, we could regrettfully lose a couple maybe. Going to 10 would be a big sacrifice, without many clear, likely or well-defined gains to balance it. IMO.

[Wheels]

Re: Fewer clubs in SL - what is the rationale? : Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:28 pm  

Mild Rover wrote:

The clubs need to justify inclusion by what they offer, rather than what they need.

It's true that certain clubs offer more than others - If Wigan or Leeds disappeared, it'd be a bigger blow. But even then we'd move on and evolve.

At the moment, I think pretty much every club offers something worthwhile. If we really had to batten down the hatches, we could regrettfully lose a couple maybe. Going to 10 would be a big sacrifice, without many clear, likely or well-defined gains to balance it. IMO.

But we wouldn't lose them though, they could easily be in a very strong 10 team 2nd Division with a promotion spot up for grabs.

Re: Fewer clubs in SL - what is the rationale? : Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:52 pm  

TFC wrote:

You would like to think that Fax/Leigh want Super League in the near future, Widnes achieved it so why can't other clubs? Without investment there will be no Super League for these clubs, however there is more potential for growth at Leigh than there is in Wales. Do you think there is a way in for Leigh / Fax?

I think Leigh could double their fan base in 2 years, absolutely.

Wanting something is one thing, affording it is another

As I said Widnes had double the fan base, massive sponsorship and a very rich owner, so tell me who will invest in a club outside SL with not much chance of getting in

Is there a way? , no

Well away you go Einstien, how do we double our fan base?

Re: Fewer clubs in SL - what is the rationale? : Fri Feb 24, 2012 5:59 pm  

Wheels wrote:

But we wouldn't lose them though, they could easily be in a very strong 10 team 2nd Division with a promotion spot up for grabs.

I'm surprised the swear filter hasn't kicked in here