Re: Marwan Koukash again : Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:12 pm  

Magic Superbeetle wrote:

Problem being that there isn't enough money for it the be split 24 ways and still be a meaningful sum ... So how do the lower teams afford the extra cap space? The home grown cap cap has been brought in for the championship as well so that covers some of the gap imo.

I've been thinking about this, if a club is relegated in the "million pound match" how is it meant to shed half its playing salary in time for the new season? Even if you say okay, just leave all the players it had signed for the following season, the squad unbalance it would cause makes it exponentially harder to return, and the club would have an obligation to pay its contracts. At least with straight relegation clubs could have an inkling to whether it was a possibility and adjust accordingly ...

I'd be fine with all clubs getting the same amount.

But lets be realistic. This new system is only in place as the SL clubs voted for it. If the RFL had proposed an even split of the money. Then it would never have taken off. We would still have a closed shop.

Also if clubs in the championship can spend the same as in SL, then they have to make up the difference with less TV money, less fans(generally speaking), so the only option is a gamble on some backers money. Which I assume is the reason why it was decided not to go down that road.

HOWEVER...... Should Bradford / Leigh / Toulouse whoever, start to show that this new system is building their crowds and competitiveness and that their income streams can handle bigger payments, I have no dogmatic issue with them progressing to spending the same.

For me it's all about the ability of the club (not the chairman) to spend. If it can be done within their means fine. But if it's a splurge that the chairman is funding through loans to the club, then really it's just a gamble until the chairperson is bored.

I think the new system is quite flexible in how it could quite easily over time become a divisional structure if the Championship clubs grow. Or become an elite competition if it does not work out.

[Pumpetypump]

Re: Marwan Koukash again : Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:58 pm  

Ok so we've established the longterm plan which is that the Championship clubs will get a level playing field somewhere down the line if they are pulling in 10k plus blue-chip sponsors against Hunslet. That's great. But for 2015 the advice to Leigh/Bradford/whoever is that they'll get to play teams on near twice the salary cap and hope they will inexplicably be promoted.

Clearly the championship is incredibly two-tier in nature so a one size fits all approach to the division and what it can/can’t afford will screw certain clubs. I personally don’t think Bradford for example will sustain a promotion drive for more than 2 or 3 seasons if it becomes apparent the endeavour is fruitless.

Re: Marwan Koukash again : Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:28 pm  

Pumpetypump wrote:

Clearly the championship is incredibly two-tier in nature so a one size fits all approach to the division and what it can/can’t afford will screw certain clubs. I personally don’t think Bradford for example will sustain a promotion drive for more than 2 or 3 seasons if it becomes apparent the endeavour is fruitless.

This is massively true. People are entirely focussed on a few clubs at the top of the championships.

They say things like let the championship clubs pay the same as SL clubs but Hunslet and whitehaven would be utterly destroyed by being in a league with a 1.8m cap. Even clubs like dewsbury and Batley can't get anywhere near.

There is this expectation that clubs in the championship, whilst in the championship, can afford to pay wages that have damp near killed SL clubs with tv money, higher profile and more sponsors.

The boom and bust has already started in earnest.

Re: Marwan Koukash again : Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:13 pm  

Pumpetypump wrote:

Ok so we've established the longterm plan which is that the Championship clubs will get a level playing field somewhere down the line if they are pulling in 10k plus blue-chip sponsors against Hunslet. That's great. But for 2015 the advice to Leigh/Bradford/whoever is that they'll get to play teams on near twice the salary cap and hope they will inexplicably be promoted.

Clearly the championship is incredibly two-tier in nature so a one size fits all approach to the division and what it can/can’t afford will screw certain clubs. I personally don’t think Bradford for example will sustain a promotion drive for more than 2 or 3 seasons if it becomes apparent the endeavour is fruitless.

I take it you missed the memo.

Not to worry, I shall explain it to you.

They will play those teams and if they get more points than the other teams they will be promoted. There you go, no longer inexplicable.

I do think that some people think that a Championship team will need to beat every SL team to get promoted, but actually the mathematical likelihood is that they will only need to beat one.

But we all know in a one off match no team that spends less can beat another team. That's why sport does not exist. If there was such as thing as a sporting chance it would make a nonsense of the regular seasons were only those with more money are elevated to the top.

Re: Marwan Koukash again : Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:18 pm  

Actually that isn't the case.

getting more points than the other teams doesn't get you promoted. 4th will play 5th regardless.

So to get to that 'million pound game which isn't for a million pound but for promotion which gets you £1.8m, in fact the game has absolutely no link whatsoever to a million pounds' you don't need to beat any of the SL sides.

Its not unlikely that club A who wins 2 of 6 games plays club B which has won 4 of 6 including beating club A for promotion. Because its important things are decided fairly on the pitch you see.

Re: Marwan Koukash again : Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:36 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote: Actually that isn't the case. getting more points than the other teams doesn't get you promoted. 4th will play 5th regardless. So to get to that 'million pound game which isn't for a million pound but for promotion which gets you £1.8m, in fact the game has absolutely no link whatsoever to a million pounds' you don't need to beat any of the SL sides. Its not unlikely that club A who wins 2 of 6 games plays club B which has won 4 of 6 including beating club A for promotion. Because its important things are decided fairly on the pitch you see. Fair enough I stand corrected. But a Championship club could put a string of wins together to win promotion without ending up in 4th or 5th. Code: Select all                                 A      B        C     D     E      F     G      H       Team A        X     Win    Loss    Win    Win    Win   Win   Win   6 Wins Team B      Loss     X    Win     Win    Win   Win    Win    Win   6 Wins Team C      Win    Loss    X     Win    Win    Win    Win    Win   6 Wins Team D      Loss   Loss   Loss     X   Loss    Loss    Win   Win   2 Wins Team E      Loss   Loss   Loss   Win      X    Win     Win   Win   4 wins Team F      Loss   Loss   Loss   Win    Loss     X     Win   Win   3 Wins Team G      Loss   Loss   Loss   Loss   Loss   Loss     X    Win   1 Win Team H      Loss   Loss   Loss   Loss   Loss   Loss   Loss     X   0 Wins So if teams A-D are SL teams and E-F championship teams. Then Team E (say Bradford) will be promoted only having to win against 1 SL team.

SmokeyTA wrote: Actually that isn't the case. getting more points than the other teams doesn't get you promoted. 4th will play 5th regardless. So to get to that 'million pound game which isn't for a million pound but for promotion which gets you £1.8m, in fact the game has absolutely no link whatsoever to a million pounds' you don't need to beat any of the SL sides. Its not unlikely that club A who wins 2 of 6 games plays club B which has won 4 of 6 including beating club A for promotion. Because its important things are decided fairly on the pitch you see. Fair enough I stand corrected. But a Championship club could put a string of wins together to win promotion without ending up in 4th or 5th. Code: Select all                                 A      B        C     D     E      F     G      H       Team A        X     Win    Loss    Win    Win    Win   Win   Win   6 Wins Team B      Loss     X    Win     Win    Win   Win    Win    Win   6 Wins Team C      Win    Loss    X     Win    Win    Win    Win    Win   6 Wins Team D      Loss   Loss   Loss     X   Loss    Loss    Win   Win   2 Wins Team E      Loss   Loss   Loss   Win      X    Win     Win   Win   4 wins Team F      Loss   Loss   Loss   Win    Loss     X     Win   Win   3 Wins Team G      Loss   Loss   Loss   Loss   Loss   Loss     X    Win   1 Win Team H      Loss   Loss   Loss   Loss   Loss   Loss   Loss     X   0 Wins So if teams A-D are SL teams and E-F championship teams. Then Team E (say Bradford) will be promoted only having to win against 1 SL team.

Re: Marwan Koukash again : Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:29 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

in fact the game has absolutely no link whatsoever to a million pounds'

1.8 million if you go up, 800k parachute payment if you go down...there's your million quid! You're welcome.

bewareshadows wrote:

But a Championship club could put a string of wins together to win promotion without ending up in 4th or 5th.

Coulda, shoulda, woulda......won't!

Re: Marwan Koukash again : Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:42 pm  

gutterfax wrote:

1.8 million if you go up, 800k parachute payment if you go down...there's your million quid! You're welcome.

fantastic branding. "the million pound game which isn't for a million pounds but roughly a million pounds between the minimum and maximum you might get". I wonder if they got Martin Sorrel on that one.

Besides, that's not even the case is it? its the team who finished top of the championships that gets £788k not the loser of" the game for an indeterminate amount of money, but money isn't the actual prize promotion is"

Re: Marwan Koukash again : Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:26 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Besides, that's not even the case is it?

As far as I understand it, ANY team relegated from SL to the Championship (unless booted out for going tits up etc..) gets the parachute payment of about 800k. Sky cash for SL sides is 1.8 million next year, so that's where they got the 1 million figure from.
I agree, it's "tentative" at best and god help them if it's London at Home to Salford come the time......2,000 maximum in a game neither owner gives a damn about, given that a Million is loose change to both of them!
As it stands, Salford are in need of a win against Hull FC or they could be out of the top 8 reckoning before March......every game counts remember

Re: Marwan Koukash again : Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:37 pm  

Huddersfield1895 wrote: I think this is another great idea from The Doc http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/leag ... 2xcdq.html Thursday February 14th 2015, about 12 minutes ago @drmarwank tweeted "I've had enough".....

Huddersfield1895 wrote: I think this is another great idea from The Doc http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-league/leag ... 2xcdq.html Thursday February 14th 2015, about 12 minutes ago @drmarwank tweeted "I've had enough".....