[Uncle Rico]

Re: Salford's situation : Mon Jul 12, 2021 12:59 pm  

SaleSlim wrote:

I don't feel the need to repeat myself thanks Rico. I've already mentioned earlier in this thread about why the club were forced to move from The Willows so feel free to scroll back and have a read.

PS. If a thread about Salford is started by Donny/LeBron/Jean/Poky etc I think we all know what the intended purpose is. Forgive me if I dislike trolls but I'll happily call out the lowlifes every time.

So you don't have an answer then. Oh I've read your back catalogue of 'huff and guff' and it does appear that contrary to your post above you do indeed feel the need to repeat yourself.... bottom line according to you it's someone else's fault.

I would love the game to flourish IN Salford and admit that you were very unlucky that your long awaited trip to a Challenge Cup Final was played out to an empty Wembley Stadium denying the Club a chance to build or retain some of the 'fans' that attended OT previously and there were plenty (perhaps you need a Delia Smith 'call to arms')?

However, you were never going to achieve a break even attendance figure of 8,000 any time soon after the deal was done, (your club was party to that deal btw, or are you saying they weren't) to move to Barton and I would have thought that as you are tenants rather than owners your match day income was always going to be limited, you know as part of the deal that your club signed up to when the the development went ahead funded by others or are you saying that the terms were changed once you were 'on the hook?

Re: Salford's situation : Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:21 pm  

Uncle Rico wrote:

So you don't have an answer then. Oh I've read your back catalogue of 'huff and guff' and it does appear that contrary to your post above you do indeed feel the need to repeat yourself.... bottom line according to you it's someone else's fault.

I would love the game to flourish IN Salford and admit that you were very unlucky that your long awaited trip to a Challenge Cup Final was played out to an empty Wembley Stadium denying the Club a chance to build or retain some of the 'fans' that attended OT previously and there were plenty (perhaps you need a Delia Smith 'call to arms')?

However, you were never going to achieve a break even attendance figure of 8,000 any time soon after the deal was done, (your club was party to that deal btw, or are you saying they weren't) to move to Barton and I would have thought that as you are tenants rather than owners your match day income was always going to be limited, you know as part of the deal that your club signed up to when the the development went ahead funded by others or are you saying that the terms were changed once you were 'on the hook?

Fact: The club were told by Super League that in order to retain a place at the top table they would have to move from The Willows to a new ground. And as we all know those goalposts have now moved as Cas & Wakey blatantly don't meet that criteria.

IIRC, a number of potential locations within the city were identified but the only viable option was the location of the AJ Bell. I assume (unlike yourself or Donny I don't have the "facts") the land around the AJ Bell was a lot cheaper than locations like just off Oldfield Road which is prime real estate being located just outside Manchester City Centre (which is now filled by hundreds of over overpriced apartments)..

Oh and I don't think 8,000 was ever the break-even figure quoted. I'm pretty sure 6000 was quoted as break-even and that 8000 was aspirational in order to kick on to the next level.

Edit: I've just read the Twitter feed from Thursday's meeting and I see Paul King quoted 8000 but going back 10+ years I'm pretty sure I recall 6000 being mentioned as break even so I'll have to try and dig up some original quotes.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Salford's situation : Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:44 pm  

Donnyman wrote: "Council hand Reds stadium boost" Salford have been given the green light by the city council to go ahead with plans to build a new 20,000-seater stadium near the M62 motorway. The Reds submitted plans for a £32m stadium, along with a hotel, shopping and leisure facilities, on a 30-hectare brown-field site near junction 11. Now the council has given the plan its backing, the final say will rest with Government Office North West.Salford have been at their home The Willows for the last 100 years. 2005 - this was seemingly well before Licensing came along https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AJ_Bell_Stadium Indeed. I’m not saying that stadium redevelopment or increasing crowds or investing in player development are undesirable. My team carried on trying to follow the principles of licensing even after it ended, which contributed to our relegation in 2016. The clubs bear responsibility too. My point is that licensing gave some of these things a degree of urgency that wasn’t always helpful. At the risk of it having been outside the licensing era, I’m thinking also of stuff like Hudds trying to boost their crowds with super cheap season tickets.

Donnyman wrote: "Council hand Reds stadium boost" Salford have been given the green light by the city council to go ahead with plans to build a new 20,000-seater stadium near the M62 motorway. The Reds submitted plans for a £32m stadium, along with a hotel, shopping and leisure facilities, on a 30-hectare brown-field site near junction 11. Now the council has given the plan its backing, the final say will rest with Government Office North West.Salford have been at their home The Willows for the last 100 years. 2005 - this was seemingly well before Licensing came along https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AJ_Bell_Stadium Indeed. I’m not saying that stadium redevelopment or increasing crowds or investing in player development are undesirable. My team carried on trying to follow the principles of licensing even after it ended, which contributed to our relegation in 2016. The clubs bear responsibility too. My point is that licensing gave some of these things a degree of urgency that wasn’t always helpful. At the risk of it having been outside the licensing era, I’m thinking also of stuff like Hudds trying to boost their crowds with super cheap season tickets.

[Uncle Rico]

Re: Salford's situation : Mon Jul 12, 2021 3:00 pm  

SaleSlim wrote:

Fact: The club were told by Super League that in order to retain a place at the top table they would have to move from The Willows to a new ground. And as we all know those goalposts have now moved as Cas & Wakey blatantly don't meet that criteria.

IIRC, a number of potential locations within the city were identified but the only viable option was the location of the AJ Bell. I assume (unlike yourself or Donny I don't have the "facts") the land around the AJ Bell was a lot cheaper than locations like just off Oldfield Road which is prime real estate being located just outside Manchester City Centre (which is now filled by hundreds of over overpriced apartments)..

Oh and I don't think 8,000 was ever the break-even figure quoted. I'm pretty sure 6000 was quoted as break-even and that 8000 was aspirational in order to kick on to the next level.

Edit: I've just read the Twitter feed from Thursday's meeting and I see Paul King quoted 8000 but going back 10+ years I'm pretty sure I recall 6000 being mentioned as break even so I'll have to try and dig up some original quotes.

Thanks for the reply and smaller 'dig'.

Do you know whether it was a fact that you had to move from the Willows, or was that just the way that your club decided to deal with a requirement to meet with SL minimum stadium standards? In other words, did you have a choice and if you had a little bit more wherewithal, do you think that there would have been a chance of staying put? The Willows was hemmed in I suppose it depends how much space a redeveloped Shed would take up and what anyone could make out of the Club end as the other two stands weren't that bad?

Yes land will have an intrinsic value and although better connected (sometimes, as someone who slugs it up and down Regent Road every day) would Oldfield Road have worked I'm not so sure and of course we'll never know.

I often thought a ground share with Swinton in Agecroft might have been a good solution, but understand why the AJ Bell and hinterland was pushed although I'm not sure that its that cheap when everything is considered

Re: Salford's situation : Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:12 pm  

SaleSlim wrote:

Fact: The club were told by Super League that in order to retain a place at the top table they would have to move from The Willows to a new ground. And as we all know those goalposts have now moved as Cas & Wakey blatantly don't meet that criteria.

I can't speak for Wakey but where have you seen information about Cas tigers not meeting the criteria to be in SL ?

Re: Salford's situation : Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:23 pm  

Uncle Rico wrote:

Thanks for the reply and smaller 'dig'.

Do you know whether it was a fact that you had to move from the Willows, or was that just the way that your club decided to deal with a requirement to meet with SL minimum stadium standards? In other words, did you have a choice and if you had a little bit more wherewithal, do you think that there would have been a chance of staying put? The Willows was hemmed in I suppose it depends how much space a redeveloped Shed would take up and what anyone could make out of the Club end as the other two stands weren't that bad?

Yes land will have an intrinsic value and although better connected (sometimes, as someone who slugs it up and down Regent Road every day) would Oldfield Road have worked I'm not so sure and of course we'll never know.

I often thought a ground share with Swinton in Agecroft might have been a good solution, but understand why the AJ Bell and hinterland was pushed although I'm not sure that its that cheap when everything is considered

"Smaller 'dig'"? There have been far more belittling 'digs' in your previous posts which I just ignored so really not sure what I've said in my last post that could be considered a 'dig'. But hey ho.

Basically we were told that remaining at The Willows would mean no top-flight rugby as to be considered as fit for super duper league you needed a shiny new stadium. So I think it's fair to say our hands were tied. Again, I'm pretty sure the club would have loved to redevelop The Willows as a first option but there just wasn't the land there to make it feasible with requirements for parking etc. I mean we didn't even have space for proper bogs at the ground so absolutely no chance of meeting all the other requirements.

As for future ground options, I think most Salford fans would happily ground share with Swinton. A circa 8k community ground in a good location with shared facilities makes perfect sense. The issue is where? Agecroft is pretty central but not sure if there's the land available. Moor Lane (Salford City's ground) is definitely not a long term option as there's not the infrastructure there for a long-term tenancy (no parking, no training facilities etc).

I'd love a groundshare at the AJ Bell with Salford City but doubt Gary Nev & co would entertain it and they'd obviously be paying the vast majority of the costs as Sale do now. So in reality I'd expect a short-term move to Moor Lane with Salford City moving in at the AJ Bell.

Re: Salford's situation : Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:30 pm  

Tigerade wrote:

I can't speak for Wakey but where have you seen information about Cas tigers not meeting the criteria to be in SL ?

Well if Salford were told The Willows didn't meet the ground criteria for licensing then I think it's fair to say that Cas & Wakey certainly didn't/still don't!

I'm sure there's someone on here who can dig out all the original requirements as I've had a quick look and can't see them anywhere online.

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: Salford's situation : Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:46 pm  

Personally as an away fan if you stuck all three side by side, i'd have still had the willows here, i liked the away end at salford, big steps, decent cover, the willows was pretty good if you got there early enough.

[Uncle Rico]

Re: Salford's situation : Mon Jul 12, 2021 4:53 pm  

Perhaps a case of selective reading Slim, I've not tried to belittle anyone apologies if you felt that I have.

To recap, I always thought that the primary problem was location, location, location, not that you can't afford it, or you're choosey who pays the lion's share, or shortfall in rent. Maybe it's a combination of everything conspiring against you, but ultimately I do think that your club (previous regimes) had some part to play in the outcome.

The millstone isn't simply just someone else's burden passed on to you IMO (a guess not a fact)

[Uncle Rico]

Re: Salford's situation : Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:04 pm  

Fantastic Mr Catpiss wrote:

Personally as an away fan if you stuck all three side by side, i'd have still had the willows here, i liked the away end at salford, big steps, decent cover, the willows was pretty good if you got there early enough.

Agree although that "away end" is mixed (I've watched non Wire games when it's been fairly well populated by Home fans) and there was seating behind IIRC, but I know what you mean.

I don't mind Cas as an equal first/close second at least the open end gives you a view and for torrential conditions you can always get under cover in the corner ...as an away ground Wakefield is definitely a hard watch open and low.