Re: The opportunity to challenge a decision? : Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:22 pm  

Not sure touch judges don't get involved, they are in constant communication with the man in the middle and are given specific roles within a game so may not be watching exactly what you want them to watch.

I don't think we need to have official challenges but a referee should at least give the captain an opportunity to speak or object to a decision with a valid argument against such decision. If there are screams of a knock on when a team go in for a try or as with the Tansey incident at the Millenium Stadium a few years back when he was a mile offside...why not allow a opposing captain the chance to ask him to check the decision. This would work if officials didn't have such a complex. Someone like Ganson or Silverwood come across as if they are always right when clearly the past has proven they make big mistakes in important games (just as players do...).

Was watching Jamie Rednap analysing a football decision made by an official. The same official had waved away a clear penalty the week before but the week after he blew for one that was nowhere near a penalty decision. Jamie said something that I think needs to be taken on board by our officials, "the official just needs to take a couple of seconds." He wasn't taking about 20+seconds just a few seconds to take into account what has just happened and whether or not there were any infringments he may have missed.

Going back to the Millenium controversy, if the officiating team had just taken a moment to ask the question everyone else was wondering (was he really onside?) and possibly taken that exact question from the captain, it would have been a completely different story, and the one it should have been.

Re: The opportunity to challenge a decision? : Sun Dec 11, 2011 12:43 pm  

I am not in favour of it but, I think the ref should stop the clock if he is going to award & try or rule one out just to allow both captains touch judges & video ref a chance to put thier point over if the need arises it would take the heat out of situations & may allow clear thinking. What I also think would help is if they stop showing replays of incidents (wont ever happen) but the RFL could insist that there are no coments made about try / no try or the rights or wrongs of on field decisions by TV comentators.

Re: The opportunity to challenge a decision? : Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:15 pm  

Horatio Yed wrote:

All i want is Touch judges with a massive set of nuts to get more involved.

Can't argue with that!

Re: The opportunity to challenge a decision? : Sun Dec 11, 2011 7:59 pm  

The match in which Leeds knocked us out of the playoffs, the TJ only got involved once and it knocked us out, i'm not complaining about the decision, it was quite clearly the correct one BUT it had been happening the whole game and nothing happened? If he'd have got involved from the start i could have accepted it more than i did.

Re: The opportunity to challenge a decision? : Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:15 pm  

Horatio Yed wrote:

The match in which Leeds knocked us out of the playoffs, the TJ only got involved once and it knocked us out, i'm not complaining about the decision, it was quite clearly the correct one BUT it had been happening the whole game and nothing happened? If he'd have got involved from the start i could have accepted it more than i did.

Most of their work is done through their communication kits anyway so they aren't really noticed by fans.

Re: The opportunity to challenge a decision? : Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:32 pm  

nick hkr wrote:

Not sure touch judges don't get involved, they are in constant communication with the man in the middle and are given specific roles within a game so may not be watching exactly what you want them to watch.

I don't think we need to have official challenges but a referee should at least give the captain an opportunity to speak or object to a decision with a valid argument against such decision. If there are screams of a knock on when a team go in for a try or as with the Tansey incident at the Millenium Stadium a few years back when he was a mile offside...why not allow a opposing captain the chance to ask him to check the decision. This would work if officials didn't have such a complex. Someone like Ganson or Silverwood come across as if they are always right when clearly the past has proven they make big mistakes in important games (just as players do...).

Was watching Jamie Rednap analysing a football decision made by an official. The same official had waved away a clear penalty the week before but the week after he blew for one that was nowhere near a penalty decision. Jamie said something that I think needs to be taken on board by our officials, "the official just needs to take a couple of seconds." He wasn't taking about 20+seconds just a few seconds to take into account what has just happened and whether or not there were any infringments he may have missed.

Going back to the Millenium controversy, if the officiating team had just taken a moment to ask the question everyone else was wondering (was he really onside?) and possibly taken that exact question from the captain, it would have been a completely different story, and the one it should have been.

But with the Millennium controversy none of the players on the pitch were complaining to Ganson about Tansey being offside because they didn't know or think he was offside. They were (rightly) complaining about the penalty being given in the first place. Only after seeing it replayed on the big screen did they realise he'd been offside since Tansey was quick and was only a couple of yards offside.
The ref had no reason to think Tansey was offside and neither did the players on the pitch so the officiating team would have no reason to stop the game and "think" for a while.

I think the challenge might have merit, but only when all games have a video ref and there needs to be strict rules applied so teams can't abuse the system simply to try and get a rest or disrupt the flow of the game.

Re: The opportunity to challenge a decision? : Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:17 am  

I thought there already was a 'challenge' rule, given that Kevin Sinfield has been using it quite successfully for a number of years? My understanding is that to use one of your 'challenges,' you're required to throw your arms in the air near the referee and gurn like an aggrieved teenager.

Re: The opportunity to challenge a decision? : Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:55 pm  

The NFL (where the idea of coaches challenges comes from) has moved on further this year to reviewing all scoring plays.

The stop-start nature of the NFL lends itself to challenges much better than the flow of RL does. There's usually at least 15-20 seconds between the end of one play and the start of the next in which the coach can make his challenge.

Using the Warrington-Leeds game as an example again, if the penalty in the last minute hadn't been given would Leeds have been able to challenge whether Richie Myler was onside or not when he charged down the kick? Even if they lost the challenge, it would have killed the momentum Warrington had from recovering the ball so at that stage in the game it would have been worth doing it - and taking a minute or so to get their breath back - even if they did lose.

Re: The opportunity to challenge a decision? : Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:57 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

The NFL (where the idea of coaches challenges comes from) has moved on further this year to reviewing all scoring plays.

The stop-start nature of the NFL lends itself to challenges much better than the flow of RL does. There's usually at least 15-20 seconds between the end of one play and the start of the next in which the coach can make his challenge.

Using the Warrington-Leeds game as an example again, if the penalty in the last minute hadn't been given would Leeds have been able to challenge whether Richie Myler was onside or not when he charged down the kick? Even if they lost the challenge, it would have killed the momentum Warrington had from recovering the ball so at that stage in the game it would have been worth doing it - and taking a minute or so to get their breath back - even if they did lose.

You have just given the reason it must not happen

Re: The opportunity to challenge a decision? : Tue Dec 13, 2011 4:27 pm  

Horatio Yed wrote:

All i want is Touch judges with a massive set of nuts to get more involved.

They'll struggle to keep up with the game though.