Re: English Fringe Players. : Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:38 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Form needs to last longer than a couple of months. Shaul and Russell have been far inferior to Hardaker and Tomkins for 3 or 4 years, thats not over-written in 3 months.

The fact is, yes we should have players ready to take Hardaker/Tomkins spot if they are injured or lose form. We should have someone ready to take Watkins spot if he never gets going this season. The problem is that Shaul and Russell arent very good and we have a huge dearth in quality centres throughout this country. Replacing an international quality player who is out of form, with a player who isnt international quality isnt going to get results. What we need are more international players

That means fullbacks who are more than just fast, centres who arent repurposed second rowers, halves who are more than small guys who can't tackle and hookers who arent failed halves. Those are development issues, not selection issues.

You make some good points there Smokey. I've noticed in our game that there's a lot of versatility with players being utilized in Two or more positions. Ben Currie is a Prime Example of versatility who's worthy of recognition, Second Row, Centre, and Loose Forward, only I feel he's only chance of a call-up might in the Centres which is his Secondry role,which is a typical example of what you're implying.

Re: English Fringe Players. : Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:39 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Shaul and Russell arent very good, they would get eaten up by lower NRL sides, never mind Aus and NZ.

just like the leeds squad vs north queensland? throw in wigan and saints too!

stupid and arrogant comment to dismiss them as not very good, if they peform they deserve a chance and they have!

Re: English Fringe Players. : Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:40 pm  

That is because a lot of the time in the past there hasn't been much alternative to picking the established player.

Even as a Leeds fan, i feel Watkins, Hardaker and Hall have a lot to prove in the second half of the year to be selected. That's the way it should be.

Re: English Fringe Players. : Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:43 pm  

number 6 wrote:

just like the leeds squad vs north queensland? throw in wigan and saints too!

stupid and arrogant comment to dismiss them as not very good, if they peform they deserve a chance and they have!

I agree. Shaul's one of the best players I've seen at Backing Up, exactly what you need from a Fullback.

Re: English Fringe Players. : Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:47 pm  

FLAT STANLEY wrote:

You make some good points there Smokey. I've noticed in our game that there's a lot of versatility with players being utilized in Two or more positions. Ben Currie is a Prime Example of versatility who's worthy of recognition, Second Row, Centre, and Loose Forward, only I feel he's only chance of a call-up might in the Centres which is his Secondry role,which is a typical example of what you're implying.

I like Ben Currie, but he is in danger of becoming the next Carl Ablett.

Ablett is a fantastic player with size and outstanding hands. But because of how the game is structured here, including the levels below SL and Salary Cap his value came not from being a world class second rower or loose forward, but from being a player who could switch from 2nd row, to 13 and play long stints at centre so what we ended up with was a player who could never focus enough on becoming fast enough and agile enough to be a top class centre, couldnt focus on becoming strong enough and muscular enough to be top class pack man. So we got a decent utility.

Same with Bateman, there is a potentially world class second rower there doing a good impression of a centre.

Re: English Fringe Players. : Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:49 pm  

Would Matty Russell even be allowed to play for England? He's played for Scotland before but don't know how long ago his last appearance was? With Scotland involved in this years competition I'd imagine he'd stick with them and start rather than hope for an England call up.

Re: English Fringe Players. : Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:51 pm  

number 6 wrote:

just like the leeds squad vs north queensland? throw in wigan and saints too!

stupid and arrogant comment to dismiss them as not very good, if they peform they deserve a chance and they have!

Are North Queensland a lower NRL side?

Its isnt arrogant to dismiss two players who hadnt even cemented their first choice status at club level a year ago as not very good in the context of international selection. They are two players who have not a great deal of proven quality.

Russell and Shaul may be in decent form right now, but anyone proposing they are selected ahead of Hardaker or Tomkins are doing so because of Leeds poor form and Tomkins injury, not because those players are setting the world alight.

Re: English Fringe Players. : Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:55 pm  

FLAT STANLEY wrote:

I agree. Shaul's one of the best players I've seen at Backing Up, exactly what you need from a Fullback.

Inglis, Boyd, Duggan, Slater, Tuivasa-Sheck offer far more than backing up.

At SL level you can get away with a fullback who is fast and follows up. At international level it just isnt good enough.

[Fantastic Mr Catpiss]

Re: English Fringe Players. : Fri Apr 29, 2016 4:59 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

I like Ben Currie, but he is in danger of becoming the next Carl Ablett.

Re: English Fringe Players. : Fri Apr 29, 2016 5:02 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Russell and Shaul may be in decent form right now, but anyone proposing they are selected ahead of Hardaker or Tomkins are doing so because of Leeds poor form and Tomkins injury, not because those players are setting the world alight.

So, what should happen if Hardaker and Watkins's poor form continues and Tomkins returns only to also perform at a mediocre level. Do you pick the player with ill-form with a reputation or pick a fresh face who's chomping at the bit and is in good form?