Re: Red star Belgrade bid to join league 1 : Sun Jan 12, 2020 4:40 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

I agree, there are in theory plenty of French players.
However, how many are capable of making the grade in SL ??

If there were many more players that were good enough then, surely, some more would have either made it at Catalan or, elsewhere in the sport.
I wonder how many Frenchman have ever made it in Australia ?

If they can achieve promotion, Toulouse would be a great addition to SL and a French derby game, where both sides were of equal standing would be great - I'd actually want to go as a neutral.

They're all made of the same meat and bones as English lads, and some of the French amateur sides are at least on a par with ours (one just came over a few months ago and beat Judes, Mayfield etc u18s). Just a matter of developing them from amateurs to SL players.

Re: Red star Belgrade bid to join league 1 : Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:20 pm  

Grimmy wrote: Just a matter of developing them from amateurs to SL players. Fantastic idea. If only someone had thought of it before? Elite 1 & 2 are very average from the streams I have seen, with many of the "stars' of those competitions being from the Southern Hemisphere. The reality is there isn't the money nor the pathway for youngsters to play the game, with may decent players, gong to the cash-rich Union competitions. Rugby league in Southern France cannot be compared to Rugby League in England. Sale is the only top union side in the north of England and they struggle to attract 7k to games whilst in France, 12 of their top sides are plying their trade in the Southern region with all of them attracting the same or more than Catalans. Toulouse RFC average 20k+ whilst their RL neigbours attracted 10% of that number. It's all well and good saying "turing the amateurs pro", but a whole different matter actually doing it. As for Serbia. Whilst it would be great for them to step up, I seem to recall them being "prepared for L1 entry in 2020 back in 2018, when they entered the Challenge cup in 2019, only to bale this year because of lack of funds and players being unable to commit. https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/7377097/red-star-belgrade-given-place-in-next-years-rugby-league-challenge-cup/ Like Ottawa and NY, talk is cheap, but stepping up costs money as Argyle has claimed. If RSB/Ottawa/NYC all join L1 in 2021. then the part-timers of West Wales will be looking at multiple "long weekends" off work, whilst the owners of those clubs will face the possibility of having additional costs heaped upon them. If NYC sign a couple of the fantastic players mentioned in dispatches, then the "competition" will be a race for 2nd spot, with another team of overpaid (for that level) journeymen waltzing through the season being hailed as the silver bullet that RL needs. As for Red Star. They were comprehensively defeated in 2019 by a team from the 7th tier of the sport, so why they would be considered for entry at the 3rd tier is another question that needs answering, but it won't even be asked by the insane brigade who believe that League needs teams in the far flung corners of the world to attract more attention and therefore money. To those people I ask this: "With the newspaper columns around the world and TV/Media coverage that they have attracted, how much revenue have Toronto Wolfpack delivered to the game? I am aware they cost the UK game nothing, but that is not the question. If you can't find yourself willing or able to give a straight answer to this question, then maybe try and answer this one: "With the newspaper columns around the world and TV/Media coverage that they have attracted, how have Toronto Wolfpack benefited the game in a non-fiscal OR indirect sense? Have TV companies tripped over themselves to get involved? Have major Blue Chip (non-betting ones) companies aligned themselves with the game? Have thousands of young Canadian Youths boarded planes to the M62 to learn the game? Have stars of Rugby Union flocked to follow the show pony SBW? Have Amateur sides sprung up all over Ontario with age group sides as well as open age teams? Has the Canadian Media flocked to buy TV rights for games? Have ticket Touts already bought all the season tickets in the hope of fetching $200 a seat for the visit of Huddersfield Giants I am all for expansion. If Red Star wat to play a better standard of RL, let them firstly join Elite 2 in France, work their way up and then apply once they are proven, but don't drop them into a comp that they are evidently not good enough for!

Grimmy wrote: Just a matter of developing them from amateurs to SL players. Fantastic idea. If only someone had thought of it before? Elite 1 & 2 are very average from the streams I have seen, with many of the "stars' of those competitions being from the Southern Hemisphere. The reality is there isn't the money nor the pathway for youngsters to play the game, with may decent players, gong to the cash-rich Union competitions. Rugby league in Southern France cannot be compared to Rugby League in England. Sale is the only top union side in the north of England and they struggle to attract 7k to games whilst in France, 12 of their top sides are plying their trade in the Southern region with all of them attracting the same or more than Catalans. Toulouse RFC average 20k+ whilst their RL neigbours attracted 10% of that number. It's all well and good saying "turing the amateurs pro", but a whole different matter actually doing it. As for Serbia. Whilst it would be great for them to step up, I seem to recall them being "prepared for L1 entry in 2020 back in 2018, when they entered the Challenge cup in 2019, only to bale this year because of lack of funds and players being unable to commit. https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/7377097/red-star-belgrade-given-place-in-next-years-rugby-league-challenge-cup/ Like Ottawa and NY, talk is cheap, but stepping up costs money as Argyle has claimed. If RSB/Ottawa/NYC all join L1 in 2021. then the part-timers of West Wales will be looking at multiple "long weekends" off work, whilst the owners of those clubs will face the possibility of having additional costs heaped upon them. If NYC sign a couple of the fantastic players mentioned in dispatches, then the "competition" will be a race for 2nd spot, with another team of overpaid (for that level) journeymen waltzing through the season being hailed as the silver bullet that RL needs. As for Red Star. They were comprehensively defeated in 2019 by a team from the 7th tier of the sport, so why they would be considered for entry at the 3rd tier is another question that needs answering, but it won't even be asked by the insane brigade who believe that League needs teams in the far flung corners of the world to attract more attention and therefore money. To those people I ask this: "With the newspaper columns around the world and TV/Media coverage that they have attracted, how much revenue have Toronto Wolfpack delivered to the game? I am aware they cost the UK game nothing, but that is not the question. If you can't find yourself willing or able to give a straight answer to this question, then maybe try and answer this one: "With the newspaper columns around the world and TV/Media coverage that they have attracted, how have Toronto Wolfpack benefited the game in a non-fiscal OR indirect sense? Have TV companies tripped over themselves to get involved? Have major Blue Chip (non-betting ones) companies aligned themselves with the game? Have thousands of young Canadian Youths boarded planes to the M62 to learn the game? Have stars of Rugby Union flocked to follow the show pony SBW? Have Amateur sides sprung up all over Ontario with age group sides as well as open age teams? Has the Canadian Media flocked to buy TV rights for games? Have ticket Touts already bought all the season tickets in the hope of fetching $200 a seat for the visit of Huddersfield Giants I am all for expansion. If Red Star wat to play a better standard of RL, let them firstly join Elite 2 in France, work their way up and then apply once they are proven, but don't drop them into a comp that they are evidently not good enough for!

Re: Red star Belgrade bid to join league 1 : Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:48 pm  

JEAN CAPDOUZE wrote:

They certainly do. This is the best news I have heard since the announcements of New York and Ottawa. Combine Red Star Belgrade with Toronto, New York, Ottawa, Toulouse, and Catalans, and you will have six non-English teams --- a truly international transatlantic Super League. What a future for rugby league!

No future at all given that none of these clubs will get a TV deal that pays anything. SKY will stop paying if the League isn't predominantly English. So it's a non-starter that if attempted would destroy RL in the Northern Hemisphere. If you don't understand these simple realities your better off not posting.

UNLESS you or Steph can tell us where the TV deal will come from? come on - give me facts and actual quotes, gimme the evidence......

Re: Red star Belgrade bid to join league 1 : Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:52 pm  

La Grange wrote:

Have TV companies tripped over themselves to get involved?

No, and are highly unlikely to do so.

Re: Red star Belgrade bid to join league 1 : Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:53 pm  

Donnyman wrote:

No future at all given that none of these clubs will get a TV deal that pays anything. SKY will stop paying if the League isn't predominantly English. So it's a non-starter that if attempted would destroy RL in the Northern Hemisphere. If you don't understand these simple realities your better off not posting.

UNLESS you or Steph can tell us where the TV deal will come from? come on - give me facts and actual quotes, gimme the evidence......

It’s you thats The fraud. Not us. You can’t offer any evidence then when you are called out on it, ask us to provide evidence for the opposite of what you say. Lmao

Re: Red star Belgrade bid to join league 1 : Sun Jan 12, 2020 9:08 pm  

Steph Curry wrote: It’s you thats The fraud. Not us. You can’t offer any evidence then when you are called out on it, ask us to provide evidence for the opposite of what you say. Lmao I gave you the evidence of McManus's article on the issue of overseas clubs - now try this https://www.totalrl.com/adam-pearson-ou ... -invasion/ So again I come up with actual evidence. Once again, the Superleague bosses are not going to sell out and destroy the game here, which is kept alive only by a paying English TV deal. The articles from McManus and Pearson made it clear (not that you can understand this stuff) that Superleague and SKY will not be relegating English clubs out of Superleague for phoney clubs abroad, not even Toulouse and with Supeleague set to go down to 10 clubs there'll be no place for Les Catalans and their English X111. These articles from McManus and Pearson were written on behalf of Superleague and were enough to see both Ottawa and New York pack in any idea of starting up. They will simply not be admitted to a post 2021 Superleague of ten clubs who all need to be English (a) to satisfy SKY and (b) to have enough academies to produce players. The American dream is in it's death throes and France are likely to go the same way. Now you show me proof the Transatlantic League is the way it will go?

Steph Curry wrote: It’s you thats The fraud. Not us. You can’t offer any evidence then when you are called out on it, ask us to provide evidence for the opposite of what you say. Lmao I gave you the evidence of McManus's article on the issue of overseas clubs - now try this https://www.totalrl.com/adam-pearson-ou ... -invasion/ So again I come up with actual evidence. Once again, the Superleague bosses are not going to sell out and destroy the game here, which is kept alive only by a paying English TV deal. The articles from McManus and Pearson made it clear (not that you can understand this stuff) that Superleague and SKY will not be relegating English clubs out of Superleague for phoney clubs abroad, not even Toulouse and with Supeleague set to go down to 10 clubs there'll be no place for Les Catalans and their English X111. These articles from McManus and Pearson were written on behalf of Superleague and were enough to see both Ottawa and New York pack in any idea of starting up. They will simply not be admitted to a post 2021 Superleague of ten clubs who all need to be English (a) to satisfy SKY and (b) to have enough academies to produce players. The American dream is in it's death throes and France are likely to go the same way. Now you show me proof the Transatlantic League is the way it will go?

Re: Red star Belgrade bid to join league 1 : Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:53 pm  

Donnyman wrote: I gave you the evidence of McManus's article on the issue of overseas clubs - now try this https://www.totalrl.com/adam-pearson-ou ... -invasion/ So again I come up with actual evidence. Once again, the Superleague bosses are not going to sell out and destroy the game here, which is kept alive only by a paying English TV deal. The articles from McManus and Pearson made it clear (not that you can understand this stuff) that Superleague and SKY will not be relegating English clubs out of Superleague for phoney clubs abroad, not even Toulouse and with Supeleague set to go down to 10 clubs there'll be no place for Les Catalans and their English X111. These articles from McManus and Pearson were written on behalf of Superleague and were enough to see both Ottawa and New York pack in any idea of starting up. They will simply not be admitted to a post 2021 Superleague of ten clubs who all need to be English (a) to satisfy SKY and (b) to have enough academies to produce players. The American dream is in it's death throes and France are likely to go the same way. Now you show me proof the Transatlantic League is the way it will go? You ask Steph Curry and me for evidence of our claims. So how about you providing evidence for your wild allegation that Super League is set to go down to ten clubs. Of course with the arrival of Toronto this year and possibly Toulouse next year, to be followed later by New York and Ottawa, perhaps with super stars like Latrell Mitchell on their roster (Latrell has only signed with South Sydney for a maximum of two years), there will be an argument for Super League expanding to 14 clubs.

Donnyman wrote: I gave you the evidence of McManus's article on the issue of overseas clubs - now try this https://www.totalrl.com/adam-pearson-ou ... -invasion/ So again I come up with actual evidence. Once again, the Superleague bosses are not going to sell out and destroy the game here, which is kept alive only by a paying English TV deal. The articles from McManus and Pearson made it clear (not that you can understand this stuff) that Superleague and SKY will not be relegating English clubs out of Superleague for phoney clubs abroad, not even Toulouse and with Supeleague set to go down to 10 clubs there'll be no place for Les Catalans and their English X111. These articles from McManus and Pearson were written on behalf of Superleague and were enough to see both Ottawa and New York pack in any idea of starting up. They will simply not be admitted to a post 2021 Superleague of ten clubs who all need to be English (a) to satisfy SKY and (b) to have enough academies to produce players. The American dream is in it's death throes and France are likely to go the same way. Now you show me proof the Transatlantic League is the way it will go? You ask Steph Curry and me for evidence of our claims. So how about you providing evidence for your wild allegation that Super League is set to go down to ten clubs. Of course with the arrival of Toronto this year and possibly Toulouse next year, to be followed later by New York and Ottawa, perhaps with super stars like Latrell Mitchell on their roster (Latrell has only signed with South Sydney for a maximum of two years), there will be an argument for Super League expanding to 14 clubs.

Re: Red star Belgrade bid to join league 1 : Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:29 pm  

JEAN CAPDOUZE wrote: More absurdities from Parksider. You ask Steph Curry and me for evidence of our claims. So how about you providing evidence for your wild allegation that Super League is set to go down to ten clubs. Of course with the arrival of Toronto this year and possibly Toulouse next year, to be followed later by New York and Ottawa, perhaps with super stars like Latrell Mitchell on their roster (Latrell has only signed with South Sydney for a maximum of two years), there will be an argument for Super League expanding to 14 clubs. Here is the first article on the attempt to have a 10 club Superleague and a ten club feeder league underneath it https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/5610037/ ... tier-plan/ The plan would have brought 20 clubs under Superleague control, and cut adrift 17 clubs who would have remained under the RFL's control. Given Superleague don't want to be an international league for the very good reason that SKY who want an English league for English subs meant that there would be no room for overseas clubs. In short SL tried to break away from the RFL and leave the RFL with TWP, Catalans, TO, New York, Ottawa, Belgrade, Vancouver, Jacksonville, Boston, Montreal, Hemel Hempstead, Coventry, Hunslet, West Wales etc etc etc. The vote went against the Superleague, but Superleague still intend to re-visit 10 clubs at the next contract when they agree a new deal with SKY, and when they won't be bound by any current agreement with the RFL. There is no argument for 14 clubs because the quality player pool has been reducing. SL was 14 clubs when the game thought expansion to Wales and France would bring in dozens of new quality players. It didn't, and so they dropped to 12 clubs in 2015 and that was when they first considered going to 10 clubs. Given the player pool is still limited due to Catalans failure to develop many French lads and the total failure of TWP to even start development (and no TV deals from theses places) the SL clubs are likely to go to 10 English clubs 2022 for the following reasons. 1. Not enough quality players for 12 clubs - SKY needs quality matches week on week. 2. The SKY deal WILL be lower so to keep their share of the money up, again SL clubs want to cut to 10 clubs 3. Overseas clubs cannot get TV contracts nor develop many quality players....WHY SHOULD ENGLISH CLUBS SHARE THEIR TV MONEY AND PLAYERS?????. You and Steph are ignorant of the facts and the events as they have played out, and I do not mean that as an insult. I don't expect fans to follow in depth the politics of the game, but I do expect them to not question or insult me when I present them to you.

JEAN CAPDOUZE wrote: More absurdities from Parksider. You ask Steph Curry and me for evidence of our claims. So how about you providing evidence for your wild allegation that Super League is set to go down to ten clubs. Of course with the arrival of Toronto this year and possibly Toulouse next year, to be followed later by New York and Ottawa, perhaps with super stars like Latrell Mitchell on their roster (Latrell has only signed with South Sydney for a maximum of two years), there will be an argument for Super League expanding to 14 clubs. Here is the first article on the attempt to have a 10 club Superleague and a ten club feeder league underneath it https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/5610037/ ... tier-plan/ The plan would have brought 20 clubs under Superleague control, and cut adrift 17 clubs who would have remained under the RFL's control. Given Superleague don't want to be an international league for the very good reason that SKY who want an English league for English subs meant that there would be no room for overseas clubs. In short SL tried to break away from the RFL and leave the RFL with TWP, Catalans, TO, New York, Ottawa, Belgrade, Vancouver, Jacksonville, Boston, Montreal, Hemel Hempstead, Coventry, Hunslet, West Wales etc etc etc. The vote went against the Superleague, but Superleague still intend to re-visit 10 clubs at the next contract when they agree a new deal with SKY, and when they won't be bound by any current agreement with the RFL. There is no argument for 14 clubs because the quality player pool has been reducing. SL was 14 clubs when the game thought expansion to Wales and France would bring in dozens of new quality players. It didn't, and so they dropped to 12 clubs in 2015 and that was when they first considered going to 10 clubs. Given the player pool is still limited due to Catalans failure to develop many French lads and the total failure of TWP to even start development (and no TV deals from theses places) the SL clubs are likely to go to 10 English clubs 2022 for the following reasons. 1. Not enough quality players for 12 clubs - SKY needs quality matches week on week. 2. The SKY deal WILL be lower so to keep their share of the money up, again SL clubs want to cut to 10 clubs 3. Overseas clubs cannot get TV contracts nor develop many quality players....WHY SHOULD ENGLISH CLUBS SHARE THEIR TV MONEY AND PLAYERS?????. You and Steph are ignorant of the facts and the events as they have played out, and I do not mean that as an insult. I don't expect fans to follow in depth the politics of the game, but I do expect them to not question or insult me when I present them to you.

Re: Red star Belgrade bid to join league 1 : Mon Jan 13, 2020 7:50 pm  

JEAN CAPDOUZE wrote:

Perhaps with super stars like Latrell Mitchell on their roster (Latrell has only signed with South Sydney for a maximum of two years), there will be an argument for Super League expanding to 14 clubs.

If Latrell Mitchell and other stars will be available for Superleague 2022 don't you get it that the English SL clubs will close ranks and make sure only one of their English club chairmen will sign him like Caddick, Moran, Davey etc. How naive are you to believe in 2022 Superleague will allow the best Aussies to go play in France, Canada, USA, Serbia for half their time.

THINK ABOUT IT MAN Both the English clubs and the EnglishSKY Sports will 100% want the best players playing in England every week.

You and Steph are also very Naive, and again not meant as an insult. Please try to accept these realities.

Re: Red star Belgrade bid to join league 1 : Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:19 pm  

Donnyman wrote: Here is the first article on the attempt to have a 10 club Superleague and a ten club feeder league underneath it https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/5610037/ ... tier-plan/ The plan would have brought 20 clubs under Superleague control, and cut adrift 17 clubs who would have remained under the RFL's control. Given Superleague don't want to be an international league for the very good reason that SKY who want an English league for English subs meant that there would be no room for overseas clubs. In short SL tried to break away from the RFL and leave the RFL with TWP, Catalans, TO, New York, Ottawa, Belgrade, Vancouver, Jacksonville, Boston, Montreal, Hemel Hempstead, Coventry, Hunslet, West Wales etc etc etc. The vote went against the Superleague, but Superleague still intend to re-visit 10 clubs at the next contract when they agree a new deal with SKY, and when they won't be bound by any current agreement with the RFL. There is no argument for 14 clubs because the quality player pool has been reducing. SL was 14 clubs when the game thought expansion to Wales and France would bring in dozens of new quality players. It didn't, and so they dropped to 12 clubs in 2015 and that was when they first considered going to 10 clubs. Given the player pool is still limited due to Catalans failure to develop many French lads and the total failure of TWP to even start development (and no TV deals from theses places) the SL clubs are likely to go to 10 English clubs 2022 for the following reasons. 1. Not enough quality players for 12 clubs - SKY needs quality matches week on week. 2. The SKY deal WILL be lower so to keep their share of the money up, again SL clubs want to cut to 10 clubs 3. Overseas clubs cannot get TV contracts nor develop many quality players....WHY SHOULD ENGLISH CLUBS SHARE THEIR TV MONEY AND PLAYERS?????. You and Steph are ignorant of the facts and the events as they have played out, and I do not mean that as an insult. I don't expect fans to follow in depth the politics of the game, but I do expect them to not question or insult me when I present them to you. The article you linked to said nothing about excluding overseas clubs, in fact it included Catalans, Toulouse, Toronto and New York. You’ve said several times on several threads SL don’t want overseas clubs, can you link to anything or provide any evidence for that claim?

Donnyman wrote: Here is the first article on the attempt to have a 10 club Superleague and a ten club feeder league underneath it https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/5610037/ ... tier-plan/ The plan would have brought 20 clubs under Superleague control, and cut adrift 17 clubs who would have remained under the RFL's control. Given Superleague don't want to be an international league for the very good reason that SKY who want an English league for English subs meant that there would be no room for overseas clubs. In short SL tried to break away from the RFL and leave the RFL with TWP, Catalans, TO, New York, Ottawa, Belgrade, Vancouver, Jacksonville, Boston, Montreal, Hemel Hempstead, Coventry, Hunslet, West Wales etc etc etc. The vote went against the Superleague, but Superleague still intend to re-visit 10 clubs at the next contract when they agree a new deal with SKY, and when they won't be bound by any current agreement with the RFL. There is no argument for 14 clubs because the quality player pool has been reducing. SL was 14 clubs when the game thought expansion to Wales and France would bring in dozens of new quality players. It didn't, and so they dropped to 12 clubs in 2015 and that was when they first considered going to 10 clubs. Given the player pool is still limited due to Catalans failure to develop many French lads and the total failure of TWP to even start development (and no TV deals from theses places) the SL clubs are likely to go to 10 English clubs 2022 for the following reasons. 1. Not enough quality players for 12 clubs - SKY needs quality matches week on week. 2. The SKY deal WILL be lower so to keep their share of the money up, again SL clubs want to cut to 10 clubs 3. Overseas clubs cannot get TV contracts nor develop many quality players....WHY SHOULD ENGLISH CLUBS SHARE THEIR TV MONEY AND PLAYERS?????. You and Steph are ignorant of the facts and the events as they have played out, and I do not mean that as an insult. I don't expect fans to follow in depth the politics of the game, but I do expect them to not question or insult me when I present them to you. The article you linked to said nothing about excluding overseas clubs, in fact it included Catalans, Toulouse, Toronto and New York. You’ve said several times on several threads SL don’t want overseas clubs, can you link to anything or provide any evidence for that claim?