Re: England team to take on the Exiles? : Thu May 19, 2011 1:11 pm  

really, 3 hookers, a 6 and a 7 and only 2 of them act as playmakers?

My point is, im not sure we have to limit our selves to one/two playmakers, many teams play, at times, with 3 or 4 even 5 pivots in the side, it makes their plays harder to read, allows them to play more expansive RL, keeps the defence guessing.

Re: England team to take on the Exiles? : Thu May 19, 2011 1:20 pm  

Him wrote: I don't think it does particularly water down the forwards having Sinfield at 13 since his defence is good. The problem has been that Sinfield has been picked at 13 at international level whilst not playing the same role as he does at Leeds and being expected to be an extra second rower. If we're going to have Sinfield at 13 we have to make sure he's playing the same role as he does at Leeds otherwise he should be at 6 or not in the squad. If we want a workhorse 13 rather than a ball playing 13 then look no further than O'Loughlin. If we want a ball playing 13 then it's Sinfield. Sinfield is playing at standoff this year not loose. When both are playing at loose forward O'Loughlin is easily as good as Sinfield with ball in hand. Look at the stats in 2010 when both were at 13 ... http://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics_player.php?hs1=2010&hp1=580&hs2=2010&hp2=263&stat=tries&season=2011 He scores more trys, more asists, more metres, and more tackles. Sinfield is a quality player and is performing well at the moment and tbh i think he suits playing 6 more. This year at 6 is stats are great ... http://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics_player.php?hs1=2011&hp1=580&hs2=2011&hp2=263&stat=tries&season=2011 TBF to O'Loughlin this year he's been rested alot and played only 40-50 mins in a good 6 or 7 games atleast, and has rarely played the full 80. But the stats show how good Sinfield has been, but at 6 thats were he should be for England aswell. As has previously been mentioned Sam Tomkins at 1 brings the running game of a 6 into the attacking dimensions and Brough is'nt a bad runner of the ball as he's proved with some of his trys this year. A core set of playmakers in ... 1. Tomkins 6. Sinfield 7. Brough 9. Roby 13. O'Loughlin S. Robinson A good mixture of organisers and runners all imo of course.

Him wrote: I don't think it does particularly water down the forwards having Sinfield at 13 since his defence is good. The problem has been that Sinfield has been picked at 13 at international level whilst not playing the same role as he does at Leeds and being expected to be an extra second rower. If we're going to have Sinfield at 13 we have to make sure he's playing the same role as he does at Leeds otherwise he should be at 6 or not in the squad. If we want a workhorse 13 rather than a ball playing 13 then look no further than O'Loughlin. If we want a ball playing 13 then it's Sinfield. Sinfield is playing at standoff this year not loose. When both are playing at loose forward O'Loughlin is easily as good as Sinfield with ball in hand. Look at the stats in 2010 when both were at 13 ... http://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics_player.php?hs1=2010&hp1=580&hs2=2010&hp2=263&stat=tries&season=2011 He scores more trys, more asists, more metres, and more tackles. Sinfield is a quality player and is performing well at the moment and tbh i think he suits playing 6 more. This year at 6 is stats are great ... http://www.superleague.co.uk/statistics_player.php?hs1=2011&hp1=580&hs2=2011&hp2=263&stat=tries&season=2011 TBF to O'Loughlin this year he's been rested alot and played only 40-50 mins in a good 6 or 7 games atleast, and has rarely played the full 80. But the stats show how good Sinfield has been, but at 6 thats were he should be for England aswell. As has previously been mentioned Sam Tomkins at 1 brings the running game of a 6 into the attacking dimensions and Brough is'nt a bad runner of the ball as he's proved with some of his trys this year. A core set of playmakers in ... 1. Tomkins 6. Sinfield 7. Brough 9. Roby 13. O'Loughlin S. Robinson A good mixture of organisers and runners all imo of course.

Re: England team to take on the Exiles? : Thu May 19, 2011 1:41 pm  

Mcguire is a far far better 6 than Sinfield. Sinfield played half the season at 6 last season as well with Mcguire playing 7 when Burrow was injured.

Sinfield is better with ball in hand, the try assist stat is notoriously inconsistant, but Sinfield offloads more, his passing is better and more consistent, and he has a much better kicking game.

I see nothing in putting a 'bigger' player like O'loughlin at 13 that wouldnt be achieved by playing 2 props and 2 2nd rowers on the bench

My team (not withstanding injuries)

1 Tomkins/Widdop
2 Hall
3 whoever, doesnt really matter, we can go for an experienced average player like Atkins, Yeaman, or Bridge, or give a shot to a young gun like Watkins or Lawrence.
4 Shenton
5 Briscoe
6 Mcguire
7 Brough (im not sold on him, I dont think he is the answer, but he is the form 7 and has earned his shot)
8 Graham
9 Roby
10 Peacock
11 Ellis
12 O'loughlin
13 Sinfield

14 Burgess
15 Morley
16 J Tomkins
17 Crabtree

It gives us flexibility, Tomkins can cover centre so with a bit of rejigging the backs are covered, Sinfield can cover 13/6 and 9 and Mcguire 7 so the halves are covered and hooker are covered.

We go with a big strong pack, lots of impact on that bench,

Re: England team to take on the Exiles? : Thu May 19, 2011 3:13 pm  

ellis & burgess are'nt coming back for it

Re: England team to take on the Exiles? : Thu May 19, 2011 3:17 pm  

roughyedspud wrote:

ellis & burgess are'nt coming back for it

sorry, that should say (not withstanding injuries or players being in Aus)

Re: England team to take on the Exiles? : Thu May 19, 2011 3:40 pm  

craigizzard wrote:

And that depends entirely on who's playing halfback, and how good their kicking/organising game is.

If we're picking half backs that can't kick/organise, then we might as well give up now.

With Brough in the side, and Roby able to play 80 minutes, there's no place for Sinfield IMO.

He's a very good player and an absolute must in a Leeds team with no real kicking game from the halves, but with a kicking game like Brough's he's simply not required and we're better off with someone with better and more punishing defence and a more size to take us forward.

Re: England team to take on the Exiles? : Thu May 19, 2011 3:52 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

really, 3 hookers, a 6 and a 7 and only 2 of them act as playmakers?

My point is, im not sure we have to limit our selves to one/two playmakers, many teams play, at times, with 3 or 4 even 5 pivots in the side, it makes their plays harder to read, allows them to play more expansive RL, keeps the defence guessing.

Too many cooks can spoil the broth though. It can keep the defence guessing, but sometimes the attack is a bit more destabilised because there are too many people trying to call the shots.

Re: England team to take on the Exiles? : Thu May 19, 2011 5:21 pm  

Wellsy13 wrote:

Too many cooks can spoil the broth though. It can keep the defence guessing, but sometimes the attack is a bit more destabilised because there are too many people trying to call the shots.

It can indeed, but im not sure we have that 'luxury' of having too many cooks spoiling the broth.

Re: England team to take on the Exiles? : Fri May 20, 2011 6:44 am  

SmokeyTA wrote:

It can indeed, but im not sure we have that 'luxury' of having too many cooks spoiling the broth.

How about : Too many cheifs and not enough indians?

Re: England team to take on the Exiles? : Fri May 20, 2011 10:58 am  

Welham is worth a go at centre, he has improved massively and his defence has been brilliant this season. His attacking play is up with the best so far this season.