Re: St Helens vs Catalans: best match of the first round. : Sat Feb 07, 2015 8:44 pm  

Disagree on the offsides. Saints were ridiculous during that period. They weren't just a step in front of the line and it was often more than 1 player and often the players were directly involved in the tackle or play.
Bentham was spot on in that period of play.

Re: St Helens vs Catalans: best match of the first round. : Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:48 pm  

Him wrote:

Disagree on the offsides. Saints were ridiculous during that period. They weren't just a step in front of the line and it was often more than 1 player and often the players were directly involved in the tackle or play.
Bentham was spot on in that period of play.

To begin with you are incorrect about where the play was happening in relation to the offsides. The offsides which were causing Bentham particular difficulty were at the opposite side to where the Dragons were attacking: it was Percival and Makinson who were getting dinged. The Dragons were attacking our left, as they did for most of the match.

And while I agree that when we were offside we were more than one step offside, that isn't the point if offside on the line is going to be judged with the enthusiam Bentham showed last night. Either a player is offside or onside, whether by one step or not is irrelevant if the letter of the law is going to be enforced. Therefore he has to watch both teams with equal scrutiny otherwise he is not in control of the game. He is instead becoming far too absorbed with making a point. That is poor refereeing and that is where Bentham found himself last night. Strangely enough - said in ironic tones - he did not ding the Dragons when they were offside on the line. And they were at times. He managed to create hostility by his actions and helped to undermine the game as a spectacle. Refereeing is also about managing a game, not just about enforcing the rules.

Re: St Helens vs Catalans: best match of the first round. : Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:16 pm  

Him wrote:

Disagree on the offsides. Saints were ridiculous during that period. They weren't just a step in front of the line and it was often more than 1 player and often the players were directly involved in the tackle or play.
Bentham was spot on in that period of play.

Offside is Offside. 6 inches or 3 yards makes no difference. Agreed that Saints were ridiculously offside during that short period, but don't kid yourself that every other team wouldn't try to get away with as much as possible as well.

If every offside were penalised, the game wouldn't be worth watching.

Also penalising a man for offside who ultimately isn't involved in play is churlish at the least. Correct by the letter of the law, but still churlish.

Re: St Helens vs Catalans: best match of the first round. : Sat Feb 07, 2015 10:54 pm  

Trouble with Sts is that they have always been a niggling wind up kind of team. Permanently offside, always a hand on the ball in the tackle and taking dissent to levels not seen even in football.
The fact is that they provoke violence by their underhanded and deceitful trickery. It's not very nice to watch and certainly not worthy of such a honest game as RL. Makes you wonder with their chairmans background in finance, how much of this he has brought to the ethos of a club once known as "The Entertainers" (self proclaimed by the way).
Cheating is cheating and none do it better than our friends over the lump.

Re: St Helens vs Catalans: best match of the first round. : Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:18 pm  

A Wigan Fan wrote:

Trouble with Sts is that they have always been a niggling wind up kind of team. Permanently offside, always a hand on the ball in the tackle and taking dissent to levels not seen even in football.
The fact is that they provoke violence by their underhanded and deceitful trickery. It's not very nice to watch and certainly not worthy of such a honest game as RL. Makes you wonder with their chairmans background in finance, how much of this he has brought to the ethos of a club once known as "The Entertainers" (self proclaimed by the way).
Cheating is cheating and none do it better than our friends over the lump.

Re: St Helens vs Catalans: best match of the first round. : Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:29 pm  

Ovavoo wrote:

Trouble with Sts is that they have always been a niggling wind up kind of team. Permanently offside, always a hand on the ball in the tackle and taking dissent to levels not seen even in football.
The fact is that they provoke violence by their underhanded and deceitful trickery. It's not very nice to watch and certainly not worthy of such a honest game as RL. Makes you wonder with their chairmans background in finance, how much of this he has brought to the ethos of a club once known as "The Entertainers" (self proclaimed by the way).
Cheating is cheating and none do it better than our friends over the lump.

Wow. Shambolic post.

Re: St Helens vs Catalans: best match of the first round. : Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:33 pm  

The Yellow Giraffe wrote:

Wow. Shambolic post.

It's a matter of degree but even St James Roby himself is starting to get sucked in.

Re: St Helens vs Catalans: best match of the first round. : Sat Feb 07, 2015 11:35 pm  

Ovavoo wrote:

It's a matter of degree but even St James Roby himself is starting to get sucked in.

Probably best you don't come on here after a shandy pal. You struggle to see with those blinkers on at the best of times.

Re: St Helens vs Catalans: best match of the first round. : Sun Feb 08, 2015 12:24 am  

How far someone is offside isn't irrelevant, neither is the fact it's more than 1 player. If a player is 6 inches offside it's highly unlikely it'll be seen by the ref or touch judge.
If, like Percival & Makinson were for instance, however a player is 2/3/4 yards offside and in line with the play the ball then it's likely to get pulled.

Also you can be involved in play even if you don't make contact with the ball carrier. If you're offside and advance toward the attacking line then you're likely to get penalised, especially if the attack don't gain any particular advantage.

Saints lost it in that period. They were yards offside time after time on their own line. The fact they didn't adapt after the first couple of penalties shows they weren't thinking. As evidenced by Percival? getting pinged for offside (proven to be correct by the video), whinging about it to the ref and then being offside again from the following penalty.

Saints were yards offside. Don't blame the ref, blame your players for not using their heads.

Re: St Helens vs Catalans: best match of the first round. : Sun Feb 08, 2015 9:41 am  

Him wrote:

How far someone is offside isn't irrelevant, neither is the fact it's more than 1 player. If a player is 6 inches offside it's highly unlikely it'll be seen by the ref or touch judge.
If, like Percival & Makinson were for instance, however a player is 2/3/4 yards offside and in line with the play the ball then it's likely to get pulled.

Also you can be involved in play even if you don't make contact with the ball carrier. If you're offside and advance toward the attacking line then you're likely to get penalised, especially if the attack don't gain any particular advantage.

Saints lost it in that period. They were yards offside time after time on their own line. The fact they didn't adapt after the first couple of penalties shows they weren't thinking. As evidenced by Percival? getting pinged for offside (proven to be correct by the video), whinging about it to the ref and then being offside again from the following penalty.

Saints were yards offside. Don't blame the ref, blame your players for not using their heads.

I don't think that anywhere in my post I blamed the ref. I conceded that Saints were ridiculous in that period. I merely stated that all other teams will also push the envelope when it comes to offside.

In respect of my comment regarding players not involved being penalised, I was referring to players on the opposite side of the ruck from the subsequent attack.