Re: Stadium Developments : Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:39 am  

Barnabus wrote:

When are Leeds going to redevelop Headingley?

Carefully and sustainably, with our own money.
The funding was in place for a new South Stand last year. It was to be a replacement with the same capacity as currently just with corporate hospitality boxes to provide additional income. The council, in it's infinite wisdom, denied the application.

One of the reasons being, I sh|t you not, that the increased capacity would put additional strain on the local transport network and local population.
Now, at the time of the application the South Stand capacity had been reduced by IIRC around 2,000 (now back up again after a few hundred thousand spent on it) so the Council's rationale was that a new stand would increase the capacity of the stand, despite it only being a temporary reduction and the capacity had been at least what it is now (and previously higher) for over 50 years. Also the local population are predominantly students who are gone after a couple of years anyway.
The only stand the council would allow at the time was one at a size of the reduced capacity, with no corporate boxes and with significant sums of money put in to making it "aesthetically pleasing".
So the council would only allow Leeds to spend millions (with no council financial assistance) on a new stand that is smaller and provides less income than he current one. Needless to say, Mr Hetherington was not a happy bunny. Sadly some of the councillors on the planning cmte seemed determined to deny permission regardless.
When you take a look at how the monstrosity that masquerades as a new cricket stand at Headingley was waved through planning and with significant council financial assistance for YCCC in recent years, it beggars belief that the same councillors can be so intransigent toward a profit-making, highly successful sports club, yet go out of their way to do everything possible to assist one that so comprehensively isn't.
As I'm sure Wakefield fans will confirm, Leeds City Council are @r5eholes.

Re: Stadium Developments : Mon Jun 25, 2012 9:52 am  

Him wrote:

Carefully and sustainably, with our own money.
The funding was in place for a new South Stand last year. It was to be a replacement with the same capacity as currently just with corporate hospitality boxes to provide additional income. The council, in it's infinite wisdom, denied the application.

One of the reasons being, I sh|t you not, that the increased capacity would put additional strain on the local transport network and local population.
Now, at the time of the application the South Stand capacity had been reduced by IIRC around 2,000 (now back up again after a few hundred thousand spent on it) so the Council's rationale was that a new stand would increase the capacity of the stand, despite it only being a temporary reduction and the capacity had been at least what it is now (and previously higher) for over 50 years. Also the local population are predominantly students who are gone after a couple of years anyway.
The only stand the council would allow at the time was one at a size of the reduced capacity, with no corporate boxes and with significant sums of money put in to making it "aesthetically pleasing".
So the council would only allow Leeds to spend millions (with no council financial assistance) on a new stand that is smaller and provides less income than he current one. Needless to say, Mr Hetherington was not a happy bunny. Sadly some of the councillors on the planning cmte seemed determined to deny permission regardless.
When you take a look at how the monstrosity that masquerades as a new cricket stand at Headingley was waved through planning and with significant council financial assistance for YCCC in recent years, it beggars belief that the same councillors can be so intransigent toward a profit-making, highly successful sports club, yet go out of their way to do everything possible to assist one that so comprehensively isn't.
As I'm sure Wakefield fans will confirm, Leeds City Council are @r5eholes.

Seems daft, I agree, especially the bit about the added strain on local transport/population etc.

I know the area well (I live in Leeds), and I'd have thought the 5/6 students per household, alot having their own cars, would be the cause of the 'strain', not 13 Rhinos games per year.

The council have already put a load of 'road blocks' in and around Ash Road as a result of the vast number of cars driving through and parked up along those streets.

Re: Stadium Developments : Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:43 am  

Him wrote:

As I'm sure Wakefield fans will confirm, Leeds City Council are @r5eholes.

Given the severe dressing down Leeds CC got in the planning inspectors report for Newmarket, the political leaders and the members of the Leeds area planning committees have to be more cautious about objecting to schemes for what would appear to be mainly political reasons (like the inspector effectively concluded on Newmarket) & not valid planning reason supported by the national & local frameworks and planning law.

I think if true, and your story confirms what I had heard, then GH needs to think (under advice from a good planning consultant) about putting in a planning application anyway, and if turned down, look to go through the appeals process. I think after a very rocky start the current government appear to have gotten a handle on planning issues now and appear to have found a good balance on appropriate and inappropriate development.

Re: Stadium Developments : Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:18 am  

Inflatable_Armadillo wrote:

Given the severe dressing down Leeds CC got in the planning inspectors report for Newmarket, the political leaders and the members of the Leeds area planning committees have to be more cautious about objecting to schemes for what would appear to be mainly political reasons (like the inspector effectively concluded on Newmarket) & not valid planning reason supported by the national & local frameworks and planning law.

I think if true, and your story confirms what I had heard, then GH needs to think (under advice from a good planning consultant) about putting in a planning application anyway, and if turned down, look to go through the appeals process. I think after a very rocky start the current government appear to have gotten a handle on planning issues now and appear to have found a good balance on appropriate and inappropriate development.

The impression I get is that Hetherington will put an application in again in a year or so time. Probably taking some of the objections from the previous rejection on board but stressing the absolute need for at least the same capacity as now and the corporate boxes. As I understand it Leeds have permission for the smaller/useless plan but that is not something Hetherington is prepared to undertake, which is why the improvements/repairs to the South Stand (which they were trying to avoid having to make) went ahead, so that the South Stand can be fully functional until better planning permission is gained.

I do know Hetherington was privately furious about the decision, which is why there was a carefully worded release on the website naming the appropriate councillors!
But hopefully if as you say the planning cmte are more reasonable now then it won't be too long before Darth tries again.
I usually bow to either your or MjM's knowledge on things like this though!

Re: Stadium Developments : Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:03 pm  

Salford have lost "several revenue streams after leaving the Willows". Not all new stadiums bring stability, especially ones which are financed by external money men. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/18577880

Salford have lost "several revenue streams after leaving the Willows". Not all new stadiums bring stability, especially ones which are financed by external money men. http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-league/18577880

Re: Stadium Developments : Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:50 pm  

The present position with Headingley is complicated, as ever. The original scheme for the bells and whistles South Stand with boxes etc was ditched at an early stage - planning said it was unlikely to be approved and my understanding from Leeds is that they decided that even they would struggle to sell yet more corporate space (although that is debatable as it continues to sell out quite often). So they went through a process of discussion with LCC as to what might be acceptable - the end result being the really crappy scheme that was put through for public consultation which IIRC would actually have reduced capacity overall. I spent half an hour chatting to the architect during that consultation and he was downbeat about the whole thing saying he'd done dozens of revisions, each time reducing the capacity and making it less appealing and less able to cover its costs. The consultation did not appear to go well. Fans were outraged at this unambitious scheme; a small number of residents were also outraged at it despite all the concessions made. Most residents, such as they are, no doubt couldn't care less as they will be long gone by the time it is built. Having had the roasting from the fans, the plans the club actually submitted to planning were not the crappy ones which went through that very public consultation but instead were an earlier version of the scheme, with a higher capacity and more substantial facilities. The planning committee said this was a very naughty thing to do and that the planning and consultation process was not well served by such shenanigans. And then promptly approved the larger scheme anyway: http://www.therhinos.co.uk/news/17267.php And then everything went quiet. Hetherington mumbled something about finding a new funding model which to some read as hoping LCC might lob a bit of cash their way. And there are some quite good rumours that the development is on hold whilst Caddick makes an exit and leaves it to a new owner to make a decision. As it stands, this new SS as pictured below is approved and Leeds have several million £ in the bank ready to pay for most of it - I can't see anything larger being approved and I can't see there being a cheaper time to build it. But tens of thousands was spent on the existing stand earlier in the year so what happens next is open to question.

The present position with Headingley is complicated, as ever. The original scheme for the bells and whistles South Stand with boxes etc was ditched at an early stage - planning said it was unlikely to be approved and my understanding from Leeds is that they decided that even they would struggle to sell yet more corporate space (although that is debatable as it continues to sell out quite often). So they went through a process of discussion with LCC as to what might be acceptable - the end result being the really crappy scheme that was put through for public consultation which IIRC would actually have reduced capacity overall. I spent half an hour chatting to the architect during that consultation and he was downbeat about the whole thing saying he'd done dozens of revisions, each time reducing the capacity and making it less appealing and less able to cover its costs. The consultation did not appear to go well. Fans were outraged at this unambitious scheme; a small number of residents were also outraged at it despite all the concessions made. Most residents, such as they are, no doubt couldn't care less as they will be long gone by the time it is built. Having had the roasting from the fans, the plans the club actually submitted to planning were not the crappy ones which went through that very public consultation but instead were an earlier version of the scheme, with a higher capacity and more substantial facilities. The planning committee said this was a very naughty thing to do and that the planning and consultation process was not well served by such shenanigans. And then promptly approved the larger scheme anyway: http://www.therhinos.co.uk/news/17267.php And then everything went quiet. Hetherington mumbled something about finding a new funding model which to some read as hoping LCC might lob a bit of cash their way. And there are some quite good rumours that the development is on hold whilst Caddick makes an exit and leaves it to a new owner to make a decision. As it stands, this new SS as pictured below is approved and Leeds have several million £ in the bank ready to pay for most of it - I can't see anything larger being approved and I can't see there being a cheaper time to build it. But tens of thousands was spent on the existing stand earlier in the year so what happens next is open to question.

Re: Stadium Developments : Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:52 pm  

Cas confirm no progress for the past year..... http://www.pontefractandcastlefordexpre ... -1-4700935

Cas confirm no progress for the past year..... http://www.pontefractandcastlefordexpre ... -1-4700935

Re: Stadium Developments : Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:01 am  

Mr Dog wrote: Cas confirm no progress for the past year..... http://www.pontefractandcastlefordexpre ... -1-4700935 It really is quite the obsession for you isn't it? Just so you know - Cas have not been able to do anything since handing over to Opus, there is literally nothing they can do but wait. Oh and nobody from Cas says oh sorry nothing has happened for a year, that is added by the writer.

Mr Dog wrote: Cas confirm no progress for the past year..... http://www.pontefractandcastlefordexpre ... -1-4700935 It really is quite the obsession for you isn't it? Just so you know - Cas have not been able to do anything since handing over to Opus, there is literally nothing they can do but wait. Oh and nobody from Cas says oh sorry nothing has happened for a year, that is added by the writer.

Re: Stadium Developments : Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:50 am  

Gronk! wrote:

It really is quite the obsession for you isn't it?

Just so you know - Cas have not been able to do anything since handing over to Opus, there is literally nothing they can do but wait.

Oh and nobody from Cas says oh sorry nothing has happened for a year, that is added by the writer.

You aren't really comparing like for like here.
I dont think that Leeds are waiting for a supermarket to hand over a large wedge of cash before they can move forward.

Re: Stadium Developments : Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:52 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

You aren't really comparing like for like here.
I dont think that Leeds are waiting for a supermarket to hand over a large wedge of cash before they can move forward.

What are you on about?

Or did you miss the quoting of the Fev troll trying to have a dig at Cas for the 100th time in this thread?