Re: Refs : Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:31 pm  

To bring it back to the subject of refereeing, Chris Joynt's voluntary tackle. What should have happened?

Re: Refs : Thu Mar 10, 2016 10:44 pm  

Bradford should've let him get up and then battered him.

As for the decision, it was correct, it wasn't a voluntary tackle.

Re: Refs : Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:19 pm  

Him wrote:

Bradford should've let him get up and then battered him.

As for the decision, it was correct, it wasn't a voluntary tackle.

I've never seen one given either so, fair enough. That's settled.

Re: Refs : Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:02 am  

meast wrote:

Poor decision for the tackle in the air..

Only if you don't know the laws.

It is illegal to tackle an opposing player attempting to field a kick whilst the player is in mid-air.

Was the player attempting to field a kick? - Yes
Was he in mid-air? - Yes
Did the opponent attempt to tackle him? - Yes

The only area for any debate would be the weak argument that he wasn't tackling, he was contesting for the ball. You don't contest for the ball with your arms around the sides of the opponent.

The argument that the ball had already gone doesn't hold water, you can't dispute that the player in mid-air was attempting to field a kick. The fact that he did so badly is not relevant. A definite penalty, and the correct call.

Re: Refs : Fri Mar 11, 2016 2:30 am  

Chris Dalton wrote:

I've never seen one given either so, fair enough. That's settled.

Actually, I may be mistaken. I've just read the rules on a voluntary tackle and I had them wrong in my head. I thought it was a voluntary tackle if the ball carrier either fell to the floor and made no attempt to get up and play on, or played the ball without being a tackle being completed.

Which pretty much is the definition of a voluntary tackle as stated in the Glossary of the Rules:
"Voluntary Tackle is where a player in possession voluntarily stops play when not effectively tackled."

However the relevant section in the Rules, under the section Tackle & Play the Ball states:
"Voluntary tackle 4. A player in possession shall not deliberately and unnecessarily allow himself to be tackled by voluntarily falling to the ground when not held by an opponent. If a player drops on a loose ball he shall not remain on the ground waiting to be tackled if he has time to regain his feet and continue play."
Now admittedly my memory of the event is somewhat hazy, but I'm pretty sure you could describe Joynt's actions as "voluntarily falling to the ground when not held by an opponent".

So by the Glossary definition I'd say it's not a voluntary tackle but by the description in the Rules I'd say it was.

What's that I hear you cry? Inconsistency at the RFL? Be gone vile heathen.

Re: Refs : Fri Mar 11, 2016 7:52 am  

the artist wrote:

he's lost the ball before contact - like you say if its against your team you would be livid

I thought that but then you can't tackle a player that doesn't have the ball.
He couldn't pull out of the collision as hr was committedb but he appeared to deliberately wrap him up.
If he'd kept his hands up he would have been OK.

Re: Refs : Fri Mar 11, 2016 11:55 am  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Only if you don't know the laws.

Was the player attempting to field a kick? - Yes
Was he in mid-air? - Yes
Did the opponent attempt to tackle him? - Yes

The only area for any debate would be the weak argument that he wasn't tackling, he was contesting for the ball. You don't contest for the ball with your arms around the sides of the opponent.

The argument that the ball had already gone doesn't hold water, you can't dispute that the player in mid-air was attempting to field a kick. The fact that he did so badly is not relevant. A definite penalty, and the correct call.

Spot on. Had the Widnes player landed badly and suffered a serious injury would anyone say it's ok because he lost the ball? Regardless of the knock on their's still a duty of care not to put your opponent in a dangerous position and that's exactly why all tackles in the air are fouls, knock on or no knock on.

Re: Refs : Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:32 pm  

Him wrote:

Actually, I may be mistaken. I've just read the rules on a voluntary tackle and I had them wrong in my head. I thought it was a voluntary tackle if the ball carrier either fell to the floor and made no attempt to get up and play on, or played the ball without being a tackle being completed.

Which pretty much is the definition of a voluntary tackle as stated in the Glossary of the Rules:
"Voluntary Tackle is where a player in possession voluntarily stops play when not effectively tackled."

However the relevant section in the Rules, under the section Tackle & Play the Ball states:
[i]"Voluntary tackle 4. A player in possession shall not deliberately and unnecessarily allow himself to be tackled by voluntarily falling to the ground when not held by an opponent....
Now admittedly my memory of the event is somewhat hazy, but I'm pretty sure you could describe Joynt's actions as "voluntarily falling to the ground when not held by an opponent".
...

Indeed. He did. And a right amateurish and embarrassing job he made of it, too. Completely blatant, and he didn't even attempt to deny it afterwards.

Here he goes:


It signalled the final demise of the voluntary tackle rule, because if that one was not good enough, then none could ever be good enough.

Re: Refs : Fri Mar 11, 2016 12:35 pm  

HKRSid wrote:

I thought that but then you can't tackle a player that doesn't have the ball.
....

Er, of course you can! Pick any player who does not have the ball. Tackle him.

Job done.

Re: Refs : Fri Mar 11, 2016 1:31 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

:THINK:

Er, of course you can! Pick any player who does not have the ball. Tackle him.

Job done.

LOL OK, Mum. May I tackle a player without the ball