Re: Salford Academy to be scrapped? : Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:00 pm  

Him wrote:

Which is why participation and quality in the amateur game needs increasing and clubs stop being lazy and relying on kids from the same old favoured amateur clubs.

But it is a similar situation in the amateur game , the established clubs attract the best kids , and those that aren't get influenced to move to the more established clubs by the Pro clubs

Re: Salford Academy to be scrapped? : Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:05 pm  

Genuine question !

How does/did the Hull F.C/K.R joint Academy operate ? By that I mean, shared costs, shared pool of young amateurs, who gets to sign the best, do they gravitate to the most lucrative/successful Club ???

I genuinely don't get how it works as I have very little knowledge of modern Academies but, from the outside looking in it looks like an NFL draft system would be the only fair way to run a combined Academy.

I ask this as today it has been mooted that Salford & Leigh could possibly enter into this type of arrangement.

Genuinely, I welcome any input from those in the know.

Re: Salford Academy to be scrapped? : Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:15 pm  

GUBRATS wrote:

But it is a similar situation in the amateur game , the established clubs attract the best kids , and those that aren't get influenced to move to the more established clubs by the Pro clubs

Then perhaps super league isn't for these clubs who can't establish themselves

Re: Salford Academy to be scrapped? : Mon Oct 24, 2016 10:16 pm  

I wondered the same myself Ste, I think they will have a draft system. Not sure what I think of a shared academy. Koukash talked about asking Oldham, Rochdale and Manchester (Rangers amateur club presumably??) too.

If we get it right, and it's big enough (ie doesn't limit potential players from joining because we only want 25 altogether and the areas could produce 10 each or whatever) then it could work. But I can't see how a draft could work if you have some pro and some semi-pro clubs. I guess for the players' sakes the full time clubs would have to take all the ones they think they want on FT contracts and the semi-pro would choose from the rest? Fans from all clubs would soon get fed up if another club ended up with more players that make it

Anyway I suspect it will never happen!

Re: Salford Academy to be scrapped? : Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:12 pm  

Ste100Centurions wrote:

Genuine question !

How does/did the Hull F.C/K.R joint Academy operate ? By that I mean, shared costs, shared pool of young amateurs, who gets to sign the best, do they gravitate to the most lucrative/successful Club ???

I genuinely don't get how it works as I have very little knowledge of modern Academies but, from the outside looking in it looks like an NFL draft system would be the only fair way to run a combined Academy.

I ask this as today it has been mooted that Salford & Leigh could possibly enter into this type of arrangement.

Genuinely, I welcome any input from those in the know.

At the minute players are ring fenced by each club in the end I believe it will be a draft system

Re: Salford Academy to be scrapped? : Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:46 pm  

RedUnderTheBed wrote:

Sorry to interrupt the squabble....

As a Salford fan I'm really disappointed that we've lost our u19s team. I can see the reasons - our primary aim right now has to be getting more people through the turnstiles. Lots of reasons they ain't coming but having a good academy team is not going to get them in now. Having a successful first team will help. Won't cure all but will help more than a u19s team. Koukash may be a rich man but he cannot afford everything. He's chosen to focus his cash on the first team. Short-termism? Definitely. Understandable? In my view yes. The RFL cut Salford's funding after a review downgraded them. Can understand why they'd do that - why waste money on something not delivering - but also wonder whether they could be more creative and rather than cut funding use it to send in people to get the right systems in place?

All the other activity with youth is continuing - still an u16s team, increasing from one college team to two, considering running a reserve team and, if they do, they will invite some of the u19s back. looking at a shared academy with other clubs in the area (believe that when I see it but might work). Most important thing for me is they will continue the work with schools and local amateur clubs. This has been a massively overlooked and under-resourced area in Salford for pretty much ever. The relationship between the old regime and the amateur clubs was poor. Salford now run training sessions for amateur coaches including free level 1 and 2 courses plus loads of development sessions with them, do sky try initiatives, embed the pathway, players at kids sessions, junior tournaments, etc. There are more junior teams in Salford now than there has been for a long time, maybe ever. Most of that is down to the amateur clubs but the links to Salford are definitely helping.

Having an ex-local junior player and coach of open age team as Head Coach and Adrian Morley, another local product from amateur club not the pro-set up, (hopefully still) involved also helps build the community feel.

At the minute, realistically, an under 19s team will have a few Salford/Manchester lads in but will mostly be Wigan, Warrington and Leigh lads. I think the last genuinely Salford born and bred player we produced of any quality was Nathan McAvoy. And we lost him to that hotbed of Academy products, Bradford! We've had a few since but most of our successes in recent years - Evalds, Ratchford, Sneyd, Turner, Fages - and the ones on the fringes of our current team aren't from Salford. There's a few in the lower leagues. Of course I would rather have an u19s team with players from wherever than no team but if we are prioritising spending then so be it

The problem is the pathway from u16s to the first team. That's going to be our problem until the u19s structure is replaced but the work with the most likely chance of success is what's being done with the amateur teams and that's a good few years from bearing any fruit yet

Have you seriously just stuck you head above the trench, explained some facts and truths about Salford ( and how the 250k a year on an academy could be better spent) and not expect to have you head shot off on this forum?

Re: Salford Academy to be scrapped? : Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:01 am  

RedUnderTheBed wrote:

I wondered the same myself Ste, I think they will have a draft system. Not sure what I think of a shared academy. Koukash talked about asking Oldham, Rochdale and Manchester (Rangers amateur club presumably??) too.

If we get it right, and it's big enough (ie doesn't limit potential players from joining because we only want 25 altogether and the areas could produce 10 each or whatever) then it could work. But I can't see how a draft could work if you have some pro and some semi-pro clubs. I guess for the players' sakes the full time clubs would have to take all the ones they think they want on FT contracts and the semi-pro would choose from the rest? Fans from all clubs would soon get fed up if another club ended up with more players that make it

Anyway I suspect it will never happen!

I think the current statistic is 1 player in 17,actually makes pro status with the current academies.That may change with the FC/KR set up but something like a Super Academy with different outlets can only strenghthen the game and the players.

Re: Salford Academy to be scrapped? : Tue Oct 25, 2016 2:31 am  

Maybe academies should be removed from control of clubs and rfl fund them on a regional basis. That way the game has gauranteed quality and systems in place not a the whim of a club end of year financial results. Players from the academy could either be signed as and when by clubs or enter a NFL style draft system each year. Academies in hull, wales, London, Cumbria, couple in Yorkshire, couple in Lancashire, merseyside etc. maybe. 12 elite regional academy league controlled and funded by the rfl is the way to go?

Re: Salford Academy to be scrapped? : Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:14 am  

Leeds, Wigan and St Helens do a good job running academies and producing super league players. Why should the RFL take over running these? Teams like Salford and Leigh just need to step up to the plate and put some time, money and effort into producing players.

There is already a midlands academy and a north east academy run by the RFL, which is a good thing as those areas don't have a super league team, however there should be no need for the RFL to run them where super league clubs exist.

Re: Salford Academy to be scrapped? : Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:31 am  

Sir Kevin Sinfield wrote:

Leeds, Wigan and St Helens do a good job running academies and producing super league players. Why should the RFL take over running these? Teams like Salford and Leigh just need to step up to the plate and put some time, money and effort into producing players.

There is already a midlands academy and a north east academy run by the RFL, which is a good thing as those areas don't have a super league team, however there should be no need for the RFL to run them where super league clubs exist.

Agreed. Reducing the amount of Academies won't strengthen the game, how will reducing the amount of opportunities for young players be good for the game? It's like the preposterous idea of a 10 team league.