: Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:44 pm  

Dave T wrote:

I don't agree.

When a ref has to make a call on a pass, he looks at how the player is holding the ball, which direction his hands are facing etc. This 'pass' from JJB had none of these characteristics to look at, which suggests to me that it isn't technically a pass, and it is fair to assume that the ball has come off his hand, and if the decision is that the ball has gone forward, then it is a knock on.
It had no characteristics of a traditional RL pass.

Does not matter the way he passed it. Fact: he transfered the ball to another player. Not a traditional pass? Neither is passing the ball like an NFL player. Neither is flicking a ball when under pressure from a defender. Still allowed though.

: Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:46 pm  

Dave T wrote:

And that is the issue that people are failing to grasp!!!

The issue wasn't that Webb was in front of the ptb, this happens all the time with forwards struggling to get back after a kick, the issue was that he then interfered.

If you are in front of the ptb, you are ruled out of that tackle.

This maybe true. But I can honestly say I've never seen play brought back because of it. Ellery Hanly made a career out of doing what Webb did.

: Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:46 pm  

Dave T wrote:

And that is the issue that people are failing to grasp!!!

The issue wasn't that Webb was in front of the ptb, this happens all the time with forwards struggling to get back after a kick, the issue was that he then interfered.

If you are in front of the ptb, you are ruled out of that tackle.

Can I just point out, if you are refering to me at all, that I agree with you on this one, just baffled as to how Webb can ever get onside again, as anyone in front of the ptb is gaining an advantage if a break if made as they are 10m further forward than they should be, so have to run 10m less to catch up with play.

: Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:49 pm  

the man is a complete tool and shouldn't be allowed to ref tag rugby at schools .

: Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:51 pm  

Dave Lister wrote:

Does not matter the way he passed it. Fact: he transfered the ball to another player. Not a traditional pass? Neither is passing the ball like an NFL player. Neither is flicking a ball when under pressure from a defender. Still allowed though.

Agreed it is a legal method of passing (had it gone backwards) but it also had all the characteristics of a knock on (ball rebounding off hand, with no control, forwards), so IMO it was a fair call for Smith to go to VR.

: Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:53 pm  

Dave T wrote:

Agreed it is a legal method of passing (had it gone backwards) but it also had all the characteristics of a knock on (ball rebounding off hand, with no control, forwards), so IMO it was a fair call for Smith to go to VR.

You seem to be shifting somewhat. Now it was a legal pass and not a knock on. If it is a legal method of passing then Alibert cannot decide if it went forward or not.

: Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:53 pm  

Dave Lister wrote:

Can I just point out, if you are refering to me at all, that I agree with you on this one, just baffled as to how Webb can ever get onside again, as anyone in front of the ptb is gaining an advantage if a break if made as they are 10m further forward than they should be, so have to run 10m less to catch up with play.

He can't get onside for that play. He is ruled out for that whole tackle. Once the next tackle is made, the onside is restarted and Webb can join in, provided he is behind that ptb.

By the way, it wasn't aimed at you, there are a few people questioning this one, and comparing it to kicking offsides.

: Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:54 pm  

Could you please change m wrote:

This maybe true. But I can honestly say I've never seen play brought back because of it. Ellery Hanly made a career out of doing what Webb did.

I don't know whether the rules were the same back then,so I can;t comment on that.

The reason we don't see it much now is because 99% of the time players are onside, and when they aren't they don't interfere.

: Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:56 pm  

Dave T wrote:

He can't get onside for that play. He is ruled out for that whole tackle. Once the next tackle is made, the onside is restarted and Webb can join in, provided he is behind that ptb.

By the way, it wasn't aimed at you, there are a few people questioning this one, and comparing it to kicking offsides.

Yes I understand that, but Webb was 10m infront of the play the ball. At the next play the ball, he was illegally 10m further forward. Therefore closer to the next play the ball than he should have been. So by logic he should have been penalised in the first instance of being offside, which could result in a raft of penalties.

: Fri Apr 10, 2009 9:58 pm  

Dave Lister wrote:

You seem to be shifting somewhat. Now it was a legal pass and not a knock on. If it is a legal method of passing then Alibert cannot decide if it went forward or not.

No, if the ball went backwards it is a legal passing technique (or in fact is just playon as no offence has occured).

This had ALL the characteristics of a knock on, and no characteristics of a pass. It wasn't a pass.