Re: Team to face Australia : Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:27 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Williams should have been picked to start, with Clarke on the bench.
Brown, although a good player, is getting towards the end of his career and Williams is going to improve.
This was a good opportunity to give him the shirt and let him show what he could do.

We look really one dimensional with Hodgson at 9, Clark would have given us some different plays.

Having said that, I though our pack would match theirs and we clearly didn't.

We were just saying the same thing. Cameron Smith showed Hodgson how to play No 9 at international level. It was too late to experiment with Brown we thought Williams should have played most of that game. Sam Burgess didn't lift the team as captain, Widdop OK in parts but still can't control a game for any satisfactory level of time.
Until we create a world class 1, 6, 7 and 9 its always going to be groundhog day.

Re: Team to face Australia : Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:27 pm  

rollin thunder wrote:

we don't need to invest we simply need to stop so many overseas players in our game, so many young players are lost to the game because they are thrown on the scrap heap at 18-19 years old, christ some leeds fans already are writing of Lilley Sutcliffe, Golding after a year or two in open age and want to sign an aussie journey man.
all super league clubs across the board need to commit to developing players we already have, and set a proper quota and stick to it and not flex the rules. we also desperately need to enforce the A teams on all super league clubs. christ Salford have already scrapped there academy it will only get worse unless we make some hard changes.
we need to get some like Dave Brailsford from British cycling on board or look at what german football did to turn there team into world champs.

Whats an A team going to do on its own? We have a league of players not good enough for SL, its called the championship and it produces very few elite players.

Dave Brailsford has been able to do what he has done because Team Sky and GB Cycling have invested in everything to give their athletes the best chance to fulfil their potential.

Re: Team to face Australia : Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:28 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Williams should have been picked to start, with Clarke on the bench.
Brown, although a good player, is getting towards the end of his career and Williams is going to improve.
This was a good opportunity to give him the shirt and let him show what he could do.

We look really one dimensional with Hodgson at 9, Clark would have given us some different plays.

Having said that, I though our pack would match theirs and we clearly didn't.

not been impressed with Hodgson at all, everyone been raving about him in Aus, can really ee why hull fans vexed that Houghton not given a go.

the experiment of picking every Nrl player available to us as not worked and we are just as far away, cooper is nothing burgess twins poor i'd rather see players like oliver Holmes, Minikin even and raging JJb players that will give everything they've got and show some mickey n venom, than these athletic soft arses. (i am really vexed off)

Re: Team to face Australia : Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:28 pm  

Disappointed with the result, but enjoyed the game. England had some chances early on, but the Aussies did their normal thing and ground us down. Would rather have seen the match played in a full stadium with less capacity, rather than somewhere that was always likely to have lots of empty seats. Hope the Kiwis can give the Aussies a good test in the final.

Re: Team to face Australia : Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:31 pm  

Muggins wrote:

I'm glad you're not representing my country then.

Would you still be taking selfies with Cronk and Inglis??!

Re: Team to face Australia : Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:33 pm  

Willzay wrote:

So essentially you want England to be a closed shop?

No.

Re: Team to face Australia : Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:34 pm  

Overseas players in Super League isn't the issue. They aren't exactly stopping the next Sam Burgess coming through.....maybe the next Josh Walters or Andrew Dixon getting more game time.....but not International quality players.

On the other side of the coin, are Sam, Tom, George Burgess.....Hodgson, Whitehead stopping a potential Aussie International from game time????

Re: Team to face Australia : Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:35 pm  

Superted wrote:

The lack of an increased salary cap is a bit of a red herring - most clubs struggle to spend up to the current cap. The real issue is the lack of money in the game over here. If most of the clubs were rolling in massive profits year after year, then the cap would no doubt increase, but they're not, the majority are run on a shoe string and are only ever a couple of poor decisions away from oblivion.

There would be a few clubs who could and would spend more - but I don't think that would have an impact on the quality of the league. The NRL is so far ahead now, players in their prime do not want to come over to Super League as it's seen as such an inferior competition - so you'd still not get the better NRL players and certainly not in any great numbers. The only way we'd currently get a top NRL player is if there are issues forcing them away from the NRL, or if they were offered ridiculous money - and in reality, if they're just going to chase the money, there will be higher bidders in Rugby Union, so they'd go there.

The game is fast becoming more and more of a mess over here. There needs to be a 'whole of game' review, from drains up. The pathways and lack of a decent reserve grade mean if kids haven't made it by 19, there's minimal chance they'll come through, the game is losing its traditional fans by moving away from the combatitive nature that has always attracted them and our national exposure is at an all time low. Rugby League is losing its identity in this country.

Non-rugby league folk I work with can all name players from the 80's and 90's - your Schofields, Hanleys, Edwards.... But the only ones any of them have heard of nowadays are Burgess (because of his time in union) and Sinfield (because of his sports personality appearance). I think the loss of the 'Great Britain' team has had a massive impact on that.

I'm a die-hard rugby league man - brought up on the game and still play in the NCL and am heavily involved in amateur rugby - which is also in a complete mess with the whole summer/winter shambles. But even I am losing patience with the game - I watched less Super League this year than ever, the standards awful in comparison to years gone by (and the NRL) and the sanitised version of the game simply doesn't have the appeal of yesteryear.

BIG changes are needed - because there are plenty of folk who are feeling not too dis-similar to me.

My quote above from the Exchange Rate thread covers some of the issues we have in this country. It's the chicken and egg debate though - It all starts with the amateur game (which is in a complete mess), as we need more juniors playing the game to increase our player pool, but a key thing to achieve that his getting the sport a higher profile and thus more money in the game to improve the amateur game, particularly at junior level.

The amateur game is in a mess - it's fighting itself with the whole summer/winter mess, the level of amateur coaching, particularly at junior level is generally awful. A lack of facilities usually means kids are training in the dark, cold, and wet, the attitude of 'give it to the big kid' and 'smash em in defence' is still prevelant - other than kids who are already from rugby league families, it's hardly a welcoming environment. Throw in then the low profile and therefore lack of star/household 'role models' for the kids to look up to, we're starting well behind the Aussies right from the beginning. They've got their star players as household names/media superstars and the climate to encourage outdoor activities that straight away gets more kids involved, and it all builds from there.

Until we find a way to encourage more kids to play and stay with the game, we're papering over the cracks. We need better facilities, more inclusiveness (how about having both tackle and touch leagues?), better coaching and a change in mindset of what the junior game is about. The only way I can see things getting better is for the professional clubs to take complete ownership of their catchment areas (with non-heartlands then shared out) - they should be responsible for increasing participation numbers, improving facilities (maybe central/shared indoor facilities?), coaching etc.... They're the ones that would ultimately benefit from doing so.

The Aussies have got some natural advantages over us with the climate (and you could even add gene pool with the natural athleticism of Pacific Islanders), plus their existing higher profile and extra money - we have to be creative to overcome this, and it will take a drains up change in approach.

But ultimately, that will all cost money to implement..... back to the chicken and egg...

Just my musings, but I certainly don't see any RFL led initiatives currently in place looking to fix the root cause.

Re: Team to face Australia : Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:35 pm  

There'll be more ejaculate in the Eve household today than there has been for many a year.

Re: Team to face Australia : Sun Nov 13, 2016 4:35 pm  

Judder Man wrote:

We were just saying the same thing. Cameron Smith showed Hodgson how to play No 9 at international level. It was too late to experiment with Brown we thought Williams should have played most of that game. Sam Burgess didn't lift the team as captain, Widdop OK in parts but still can't control a game for any satisfactory level of time.
Until we create a world class 1, 6, 7 and 9 its always going to be groundhog day.

We haven't had a decent English hooker since Martin Dermott, the game has been obsessed over here with scooters from dummy half who lack the ball playing skills of the likes Cameron Smith.