Re: Elite Academies : Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:41 pm  

dboy wrote:

Spot on.

But club's have to run them properly, invest in them properly, produce players appropriately. And they need to evidence it.

The 3 club's missing out haven't done that - they suffered from their own elitist entitlement.

How do you know how we have ran or invested in our academy? From a Hull KR point of view we hired (invested) John Bastian with a proven track record in bringing youth through as this is the direction the club wants to go in, but they are not been allowed to. We were part of the city of Hull academy from 2015-2019 so whatever FC are taking credit for producing in them 4 years, we should too as the joint venture. We got a solo licence in 2019 but Covid hit for our first full season in 2020. We have had the rug pulled from under us before we've had chance to run, invest and produce as a solo entity.

Basically, we are willing to invest, we want to run an academy and produce players but we are been told no you can't. It is at the RFL's feet if participation numbers are so low (playing numbers are actually up by around 42% in Hull).

Re: Elite Academies : Thu Jun 03, 2021 1:55 pm  

g_balls wrote:

How do you know how we have ran or invested in our academy? From a Hull KR point of view we hired (invested) John Bastian with a proven track record in bringing youth through as this is the direction the club wants to go in, but they are not been allowed to. We were part of the city of Hull academy from 2015-2019 so whatever FC are taking credit for producing in them 4 years, we should too as the joint venture. We got a solo licence in 2019 but Covid hit for our first full season in 2020. We have had the rug pulled from under us before we've had chance to run, invest and produce as a solo entity.

Basically, we are willing to invest, we want to run an academy and produce players but we are been told no you can't. It is at the RFL's feet if participation numbers are so low (playing numbers are actually up by around 42% in Hull).

Because you failed to meet the criteria for an academy licence! If you had met the criteria, you would have been given a licence. There are 2 spots unfilled!

Bastian has a good record - HKR less so; it's HKR applying, not Bastian.

Defo feel it's harder for you coming off the back of the CoH venture though.

Instead of being "willing to invest", they should have, you know...invested.

If you are sure that the HKR academy is actually well run and well funded, then the blame falls with whoever wrote the application, as they have clearly failed to evidence it.

Maybe they thought they were guaranteed a spot and didn't give the process due respect?

Again, with 2 spots unfilled, if the club's missing out had been anywhere near meeting the criteria, they would have been given a place - that they haven't, speaks volumes about their applications.

Re: Elite Academies : Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:19 pm  

dboy wrote:

Because you failed to meet the criteria for an academy licence! If you had met the criteria, you would have been given a licence. There are 2 spots unfilled!

Bastian has a good record - HKR less so; it's HKR applying, not Bastian.

Defo feel it's harder for you coming off the back of the CoH venture though.

Instead of being "willing to invest", they should have, you know...invested.

If you are sure that the HKR academy is actually well run and well funded, then the blame falls with whoever wrote the application, as they have clearly failed to evidence it.

Maybe they thought they were guaranteed a spot and didn't give the process due respect?

Again, with 2 spots unfilled, if the club's missing out had been anywhere near meeting the criteria, they would have been given a place - that they haven't, speaks volumes about their applications.

Again, do you know what the criteria is that the clubs failed on? I've not seen anything released yet and as said before, neither do the clubs. This is the issue, clubs have been told they have 'failed' but no evidence as too why has been produced yet.

I still believe however even in all this arguing, academies should be a requirement and no one should have to apply for the right to run one.

[Mild Rover]

Re: Elite Academies : Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:21 pm  

dboy wrote:

Because you failed to meet the criteria for an academy licence! If you had met the criteria, you would have been given a licence. There are 2 spots unfilled!

Bastian has a good record - HKR less so; it's HKR applying, not Bastian.

Defo feel it's harder for you coming off the back of the CoH venture though.

Instead of being "willing to invest", they should have, you know...invested.

If you are sure that the HKR academy is actually well run and well funded, then the blame falls with whoever wrote the application, as they have clearly failed to evidence it.

Maybe they thought they were guaranteed a spot and didn't give the process due respect?

Again, with 2 spots unfilled, if the club's missing out had been anywhere near meeting the criteria, they would have been given a place - that they haven't, speaks volumes about their applications.

Our record is cack, I can’t deny it. I also think this represents an opportunity to set out in our direction and do something better, free from central advice and guidance - which is usually worse than cack.

However, I’m not sure how clear the precise criteria have been to clubs or for how long. In previous assessments the assessors have gone out to clubs, had a nosey around and made a prospective assessment. With a switch to a retrospective, spreadsheet-based approach (which in of itself is fine), we were always going to be at risk, and our efforts to improve were always likely to be wasted. So, why not just tell us to sod off in 2019? My suspicion is that is because the criteria changed, and it is tricky to adapt quickly - hence the 6-year licence period.

Re: Elite Academies : Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:21 pm  

g_balls wrote:

Again, do you know what the criteria is that the clubs failed on? I've not seen anything released yet and as said before, neither do the clubs. This is the issue, clubs have been told they have 'failed' but no evidence as too why has been produced yet.

I still believe however even in all this arguing, academies should be a requirement and no one should have to apply for the right to run one.

The headline criteria was released yesterday.

Academies should be a requirement.

Everyone should apply (and meet the criteria), if they want central funding.

It's really not hard to get your head around.

Re: Elite Academies : Fri Jun 04, 2021 5:52 am  

dboy wrote:

The headline criteria was released yesterday.

Academies should be a requirement.

Everyone should apply (and meet the criteria), if they want central funding.

It's really not hard to get your head around.

I agree with everything you are saying. The 15 clubs who took an interest had 3 years to prepare the academy for application and simply haven't met the agreed, specified criteria.

Lets see what an independent third party thinks when some club go through the appeal process.

Re: Elite Academies : Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:25 am  

dboy wrote:

The headline criteria was released yesterday.

Academies should be a requirement.

Everyone should apply (and meet the criteria), if they want central funding.

It's really not hard to get your head around.

The extent to which the club produces Super League players (since 2016) = we was in the joint academy from 2015-19 so whatever FC produced, we produced the same, from 2019 we went solo and Covid hit 2020.

The ability to finance an Academy = We are putting a lot of money into our Academy since going solo in 2019, even at the expense of not spending a full cap on the first team.

past performance on deliver = As point one, given a solo licence in 2019 and only had the 2020 Covid hit season to be judged on.

Any other criteria that the RFL determines is relevant at it's discretion = yeh real specific that isn't it

I've got my head around it

Re: Elite Academies : Fri Jun 04, 2021 6:36 am  

g_balls wrote:

The extent to which the club produces Super League players (since 2016) = we was in the joint academy from 2015-19 so whatever FC produced, we produced the same, from 2019 we went solo and Covid hit 2020.

The ability to finance an Academy = We are putting a lot of money into our Academy since going solo in 2019, even at the expense of not spending a full cap on the first team.

past performance on deliver = As point one, given a solo licence in 2019 and only had the 2020 Covid hit season to be judged on.

Any other criteria that the RFL determines is relevant at it's discretion = yeh real specific that isn't it

I've got my head around it

you've every right to feel hard done as every club should be allowed to have their own academy but rather you rant on here why don't you vent your spleen at that dimwit Rimmer, hes the one to blame

Re: Elite Academies : Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:03 am  

wire-quin wrote:

I agree with everything you are saying. The 15 clubs who took an interest had 3 years to prepare the academy for application and simply haven't met the agreed, specified criteria.

Lets see what an independent third party thinks when some club go through the appeal process.

If the independent third party justifies the refusal to allow an academy, and points out the shortcomings can the club(s) put these right and re-apply?

[Mild Rover]

Re: Elite Academies : Fri Jun 04, 2021 7:24 am  

Donnyman wrote:

If the independent third party justifies the refusal to allow an academy, and points out the shortcomings can the club(s) put these right and re-apply?

Realistically, no.

The decision is based on past performance, which is fine but the past is gone.

If you mean ‘could they do better and re-apply in a few years based on that better performance’, then the issue is that they won’t have an elite academy during that period and so will be unlikely to improve.

It is a bit like under the SL licensing system, when non-SL clubs could apply but it was very difficult for them to compete with the incumbents with their inherent advantages.

Karl Turner, the MP for East Hull has tweeted that he expects a statement from the RFL and Hull KR today, following what he believes to have been constructive discussions.