Re: 2017 Super League Ins & Outs : Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:56 pm  

Dave K. wrote:

Glad we agree that you were talking nonsense in your assessment of a player using lower league stats.

I wonder how many Raiders fans were going nuts about him when he signed based on his SL stats and video highlights I would guess none.

Another good comparison, get your money on Wakeman for SL dream team and MOS.

No one is claiming anything of the sort though. All I did was post some figures- with no comment about them as it happens.......... - but then you immediately jumped right in- not really sure why you have got your knickers in a twist about a signing for another club.
In your haste to pooh pooh the signing for another club you've made assumptions about what I have actually said. Please go back and properly read my posts.
I didn't say in any of my posts he was a good signing- you also attributed my assessments- where did I make these assessments? but you seem to have attributed me doing so. I'm apparently "talking nonsense" in my assessments that I haven't made.... who's talking nonsense. As I said- go back and read my posts.
By your own admission minichiello was coming"to the end of his career" and so you know what his best was. Hudds have signed A reletavely young, hungry, passionate hard working prop forward with a point to prove, someone not yet at his peak as a rugby player--so you can't really say whether he's going to be any good- neither can I- but you've written him off before he's even set foot in the country yet alone played a game in the competition.

Re: 2017 Super League Ins & Outs : Fri Dec 23, 2016 10:30 pm  

jools wrote:

No one is claiming anything of the sort though. All I did was post some figures- with no comment about them as it happens.......... - but then you immediately jumped right in- not really sure why you have got your knickers in a twist about a signing for another club.
In your haste to pooh pooh the signing for another club you've made assumptions about what I have actually said. Please go back and properly read my posts.
I didn't say in any of my posts he was a good signing- you also attributed my assessments- where did I make these assessments? but you seem to have attributed me doing so. I'm apparently "talking nonsense" in my assessments that I haven't made.... who's talking nonsense. As I said- go back and read my posts.
By your own admission minichiello was coming"to the end of his career" and so you know what his best was. Hudds have signed A reletavely young, hungry, passionate hard working prop forward with a point to prove, someone not yet at his peak as a rugby player--so you can't really say whether he's going to be any good- neither can I- but you've written him off before he's even set foot in the country yet alone played a game in the competition.

The only point I'd make is that at 26 you'd have expected him to have played first grade at some point but the days of top aussies coming over are long gone not because of the standard of SL but our salary cap compared to there's

Re: 2017 Super League Ins & Outs : Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:43 am  

jools wrote:

No one is claiming anything of the sort though. All I did was post some figures- with no comment about them as it happens.......... - but then you immediately jumped right in- not really sure why you have got your knickers in a twist about a signing for another club.
In your haste to pooh pooh the signing for another club you've made assumptions about what I have actually said. Please go back and properly read my posts.
I didn't say in any of my posts he was a good signing- you also attributed my assessments- where did I make these assessments? but you seem to have attributed me doing so. I'm apparently "talking nonsense" in my assessments that I haven't made.... who's talking nonsense. As I said- go back and read my posts.
By your own admission minichiello was coming"to the end of his career" and so you know what his best was. Hudds have signed A reletavely young, hungry, passionate hard working prop forward with a point to prove, someone not yet at his peak as a rugby player--so you can't really say whether he's going to be any good- neither can I- but you've written him off before he's even set foot in the country yet alone played a game in the competition.

I guess we never read each other posts, I haven't written him off once, just pointing out that his stats from an inferior competition are pointless. If we had signed a 26 year old prop never to play at the top level, Id just see how he did rather than try and justify a signing, maybe not you but the excitement on the Hudds board over this signing is way over the top including someone claiming he is a huge signing.

Nobody has seen him play and certainly not a level he will be playing, guess we will have to see how he does, but on paper I don't see him as an improvement on Huby or even Crabtree.

Re: 2017 Super League Ins & Outs : Sat Dec 24, 2016 6:48 am  

jools wrote:

No one is claiming anything of the sort though. All I did was post some figures- with no comment about them as it happens.......... - but then you immediately jumped right in- not really sure why you have got your knickers in a twist about a signing for another club.
In your haste to pooh pooh the signing for another club you've made assumptions about what I have actually said. Please go back and properly read my posts.
I didn't say in any of my posts he was a good signing- you also attributed my assessments- where did I make these assessments? but you seem to have attributed me doing so. I'm apparently "talking nonsense" in my assessments that I haven't made.... who's talking nonsense. As I said- go back and read my posts.
By your own admission minichiello was coming"to the end of his career" and so you know what his best was. Hudds have signed A reletavely young, hungry, passionate hard working prop forward with a point to prove, someone not yet at his peak as a rugby player--so you can't really say whether he's going to be any good- neither can I- but you've written him off before he's even set foot in the country yet alone played a game in the competition.

Actually on the Hudds board you have claimed he looks a quality signing.

Re: 2017 Super League Ins & Outs : Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:27 am  

He might not have any NRL experience but that's not to say he won't be good. I think every team has horror stories about signing an NRL who came with a good reputation but turned out to be rubbish, mostly because he was here to pick up a nice wage. Every club can also probably point out a NRL signing that didn't come with much of a reputation who turned out to be pretty good. Mitch Garbutt at prop for Leeds came in late 2015 with only a dozen NRL appearances under his belt aged 26 and many would question his ability based on that, but he played a key role in helping win the treble and even when we struggled in 2016 he still made over 100m in 18 of his 21 regular season appearances and was one of the best metre making props in the competition. This guy for Hudds could well be in the same mould. Just now at Leeds some are questioning why this new hooker we have was let go and assume it must mean there's something wrong with him......Parcell and Wakeman, like Garbutt might just be good players that never got a break in the NRL because coaches made poor decisions that they weren't good enough when they could've been. Also not being good enough for the NRL doesn't mean they won't thrive in a competition we all accept isn't as good in quality as the NRL,

Re: 2017 Super League Ins & Outs : Sat Dec 24, 2016 8:36 am  

Dave K. wrote:

Actually on the Hudds board you have claimed he looks a quality signing.

No I haven't. I said he looks like a beast. I said his stats are impressive and some of the best from the league he is in.
What I did say was I'd like to see another quality signing. You have (again) made inferences and twisted that.

Re: 2017 Super League Ins & Outs : Sat Dec 24, 2016 11:28 am  

jools wrote:

No I haven't. I said he looks like a beast. I said his stats are impressive and some of the best from the league he is in.
What I did say was I'd like to see another quality signing. You have (again) made inferences and twisted that.

You are correct this time, so I apologise. We are going around in circles, I look forward in welcoming Shannon to SL, with these two I feel you now have a decent chance of 7th/8th.

Merry Christmas

Re: 2017 Super League Ins & Outs : Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:18 pm  

Dave K. wrote:

Of course it is, everyone knows it, apart from Jools.

As said, when players the standard in Tyrone McCarthy, who lets be honest is Championship standard, is in the dream team, it shows how much below SL it is.

I've watched this thread in the hope that you'd relent and show you were more clued up than your posts suggest - alas you seem not to be.

Tyrone may prove to be a dud signing for Hudds or could end up to be an inspired one, you can't tell for now - one thing is for sure he's as much a SL standard players as most of the Hull FC team. You seem to have a basic lack of understanding as to how teams and players are created or arrogance after a good season, I'm not sure which tbh.

There are two basic rules regarding players in my book.

First - Peter Fox once told me during one of his endless lectures (I used to drive him around a bit when he was at Fev) that there were three kinds of players. First is the player who has it right from the start and never loses it, there are not many of those but as you can imagine their Don and their Neil loomed large. Next were the players who never had it and never would, no names mentioned. Third and the one that covered the vast number of players were those who had it for a bit. Some were the burst on the scene youngsters then fade, others were those who had been around for a while then for whatever reason suddenly blossomed and finally those who bloomed at the very end.

In other words most players have a short shelf life and the art of a great coach is spotting when that's about to happen. John Kear is the best I know for this. It's important because even if a club could afford it no team should ever be staffed by only superstars, it wouldn't work. you need those players who peak and then move on to keep the balance right.

This brings me to the second point. McCarthy like most players will play his best in a team and for a coach he likes - Mr Stone may be that man in which case Tyrone has all the attributes to shine as do most players who get this far. My own club Trinity has a rich history of getting the best from these players. Some like Mike Forshaw and a few others have resurrected their careers with us and gone on to great things. However most have given us a few really great years then just faded away or made the wrong move and that applies to all clubs to varying degrees.

The difference between a truly great player and a good one is massive - the difference between a good club player and a work a day journeyman is small and can be summed up in three words - 'the right circumstances'.

Re: 2017 Super League Ins & Outs : Wed Dec 28, 2016 1:32 pm  

vastman wrote:

I've watched this thread in the hope that you'd relent and show you were more clued up than your posts suggest - alas you seem not to be.

Tyrone may prove to be a dud signing for Hudds or could end up to be an inspired one, you can't tell for now - one thing is for sure he's as much a SL standard players as most of the Hull FC team. You seem to have a basic lack of understanding as to how teams and players are created or arrogance after a good season, I'm not sure which tbh.

There are two basic rules regarding players in my book.

First - Peter Fox once told me during one of his endless lectures (I used to drive him around a bit when he was at Fev) that there were three kinds of players. First is the player who has it right from the start and never loses it, there are not many of those but as you can imagine their Don and their Neil loomed large. Next were the players who never had it and never would, no names mentioned. Third and the one that covered the vast number of players were those who had it for a bit. Some were the burst on the scene youngsters then fade, others were those who had been around for a while then for whatever reason suddenly blossomed and finally those who bloomed at the very end.

In other words most players have a short shelf life and the art of a great coach is spotting when that's about to happen. John Kear is the best I know for this. It's important because even if a club could afford it no team should ever be staffed by only superstars, it wouldn't work. you need those players who peak and then move on to keep the balance right.

This brings me to the second point. McCarthy like most players will play his best in a team and for a coach he likes - Mr Stone may be that man in which case Tyrone has all the attributes to shine as do most players who get this far. My own club Trinity has a rich history of getting the best from these players. Some like Mike Forshaw and a few others have resurrected their careers with us and gone on to great things. However most have given us a few really great years then just faded away or made the wrong move and that applies to all clubs to varying degrees.

The difference between a truly great player and a good one is massive - the difference between a good club player and a work a day journeyman is small and can be summed up in three words - 'the right circumstances'.

Sums your knowledge up that sentence, you might want to re-read your post and see how wrong you are.

Ignoring your massive error, ask Rovers fans how good he was for them, he might be a workhorse, but would get no were near the Hull side, he isn't a top 8 SL player and certainly not a top 4 player.

Like it or not, McCarthy at 28, has no stood out in SL and has been no more than an average SL player, that's why he was released by Warrington and didn't stand out at Rovers (In a poor side, coached by Chester, who has done great at Wakey).

Let's see if he comes back the UK (Clue to your error there), who he signs for and how he does.

Although you use to taxi around Peter Fox, so you obviously know more about the ability of McCarthy than me, you should put that on your CV.

Re: 2017 Super League Ins & Outs : Wed Dec 28, 2016 4:50 pm  

Dave K. wrote:

Sums your knowledge up that sentence, you might want to re-read your post and see how wrong you are.

Ignoring your massive error, ask Rovers fans how good he was for them, he might be a workhorse, but would get no were near the Hull side, he isn't a top 8 SL player and certainly not a top 4 player.

Like it or not, McCarthy at 28, has no stood out in SL and has been no more than an average SL player, that's why he was released by Warrington and didn't stand out at Rovers (In a poor side, coached by Chester, who has done great at Wakey).

Let's see if he comes back the UK (Clue to your error there), who he signs for and how he does.

Although you use to taxi around Peter Fox, so you obviously know more about the ability of McCarthy than me, you should put that on your CV.

Classic that Dave how to make yourself look stupid by thinking your superior