Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:15 am  

debaser wrote:

Embarrassing that there are some on here are are seeking to justify Flower's actions as retaliation so therefore acceptable.

Even if it was a retaliation, so what, how does it make it ok? In real life, or on the pitch?

But well done Mr Flower, rugby league finally has front pages all around the world, phone ins on the radio, the lot.

And Mr Wane's failure to condemn Flower's actions speaks volumes.

Agree with this.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:24 am  

Has there ever been a more detested team in RL than the current Wigan lot? Reknown for their borderline tactics, and "coached" by a guy who is clearly not the sharpest knife in the drawer, can we really expect anything else?

I think their classless refusal to appear in any post match interview, simply highlights their inbred seige mentality.
Congrats to Saints. I suspect the entire RL community stood and applauded at the end.

PS Guess what Team Board has a gloating thread,..... and then has a frothing Mod threatening to ban anyone who actually gloats.....lol

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:30 am  

What went on beforehand is almost irrelevant. The first punch was an overreaction in itself - Hohaia then drops to the ground - that's where any attack must end, and if it did, at that point Flower could potentially have had some mitigation to reduce his ban - the punch was still wrong, but could be understood.

As it is, Hohaia drops, and Flower follows up the first punch by bending over and swinging another - that's just not fair game and is criminal.

For those claiming these type of incidents can't be dealt with by the courts - an ex-teammate of mine was prosecuted following an all in brawl on the rugby pitch. He didn't start the brawl, he didn't hit an unconscious man, he was actually retaliating - however, he did catch the lad who started it all with a beauty that knocked the lad clean out and broke his eye socket - he didn't do time for this, but he was prosecuted at Court (and subsequently lost his 'public facing' job due to his conviction). There have been quite a few incidents in the amateur game recently that have finished up in the Courts.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:37 am  

Which is why I hope it does not, otherwise a can of worms is opened.

Yes it can go to the courts and in the amature game, maybe for the reward the risks of getting lamped are not worth it.

But this is the pro game, where people are well rewarded for the risk and have insurance etc.

Not sure about the reasons you fella was taken to court, but could be that any criminal prosecution was required for insurance purposes to pay out? Like I say I've no idea, but if this goes to court, will Farrell and Scully have to go to court for their dust up years ago. What about broken noses, eye sockets, cheek bones, busted knees from cannonball tackles.

We could be there every week

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:43 am  

bewareshadows wrote:

, but if this goes to court, will Farrell and Scully have to go to court for their dust up years ago. What about broken noses, eye sockets, cheek bones, busted knees from cannonball tackles.

We could be there every week

No, usually both could claim self defence as there is no clear victim/assailant.

We would not be there every week - this is the first time I have ever seen an unconscious player attacked whilst lying defenceless on the ground. Flower cannot claim in the slightest that he feared harm to himself owing to the fact Hohaia was unconscious.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:57 am  

In the first set of 6 in the game I think St's came out and out Wiganed wigan. A tatact I sure brown sent them out there with. Some thing like 'we all know how Wigan / Wane play rugby let's go out there and get at them first'. Which was evident by how big the hits were in the first set of 6 and leading to (excuse the spelling) mose giving away a penalty for a high shot.

The play goes down the other end, lance and Ben come together, yes lance steps across him yes Ben gets his arms up and knocks him down. Nothing much if any thing in it at all. With the words of his coach still fresh in his head 'we are not going to get pushed around by this Wigan team' lance picks him self up and runs after Ben and attempts to knock him down.

There is no forarm smash to the head as some are trying to make out. First contact is on the chest, there is a little contact with the head but nothing major if referee sees it most proberly a penalty to Wigan.

Then Ben after that, wound up like a spring at the beginning of a grand final felling a bit of contact to the head retaliates with a heavy blow to lance knocking out/down. Over reaction slightly but can see wear it comes from and something rightly or wrongly you often see on a rugby field. Yellow card may be a red but if it ended there with a bit of a scuffle between both teams he may well of been put on report as it was the 2nd min of a final.

What happens after that was awful and not going to go into it but think the lad is facing a very hefty ban 10 games minimum I would think.

Now and let me say I am defiantly not Wigan or St's supporter. Nathan Brown to me looks like he sent his team out to get right at Wigan and wind then up, looks like that worked and they win the game.

And let me add I hope lance is okay!

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:20 am  

bewareshadows wrote:

Which is why I hope it does not, otherwise a can of worms is opened.

Yes it can go to the courts and in the amature game, maybe for the reward the risks of getting lamped are not worth it.

But this is the pro game, where people are well rewarded for the risk and have insurance etc.

Not sure about the reasons you fella was taken to court, but could be that any criminal prosecution was required for insurance purposes to pay out? Like I say I've no idea, but if this goes to court, will Farrell and Scully have to go to court for their dust up years ago. What about broken noses, eye sockets, cheek bones, busted knees from cannonball tackles.

We could be there every week

Alot of things happen as part of the game like the examples you've mentioned but attacking an unconcious opponent on the floor is something else.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:29 am  

The funniest thing about this isnt Wigans tactics being a major reasons why their players were left in tears on the field, nor is it their fans trying to mitigate or defend it, nor is it the world wide (literally) embarrassment the incident has brought.

Its just how hard certain trolls are having to work for a reaction on this thread. They really are having to lay a lot of bait for very little reaction .

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:29 am  

FlexWheeler wrote:

Alot of things happen as part of the game like the examples you've mentioned but attacking an unconcious opponent on the floor is something else.

This is absolutely the point. My ex-teammate mitigated with an argument of self defence and that it was part of an all in brawl instigated by the 'victim' - these were taken into account, but he was deemed to have used excessive force (don't know how it was legally worded) - but basically his reaction and force of his punch was seen as excessive and beyond defence - one of the reasons it went to Court was that the 'Victim' chose to press charges (For which he was widely criticised for locally - I understand even by his own teammates) - I can't imaging Hohaia will want to press charges.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 8:43 am  

Find it embarrassing that Wigan fans are trying to defend the whole incident. Flower has not only brought the game into shame around the world, but he cost your team the grand final. Instead of taking it out on Flower for costing you back to back titles you are all more bothered about trying to prove that somehow this was Hohaia's fault and to hear people saying he deserved it is ridiculous. Rugby League is a tough sport and Flower reacted disgracefully to getting a bit of his own medicine. There was no need for him to take it any further, 1 cheap shot each.
Wane ' s comments are an absolute joke and embarrassment. Jason Crookes got sent off for us against Rovers, he never (and never will) play for Hull again. Flower gets sent off 2 minutes into a grand final costing Wigan the game and Wiga are willing to 'stand by him'. If the club had any morals he'd have been driving home from Old Trafford at about 6:15 last night and never to return back to the Wigan club.