Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:03 am  

Cronus wrote:

Make juvenile posts such as "End of. Night" and you'll get one in response.

I actually agree with the remainder of your post, except you miss the point that Hohaia chose to deliberately move into Flower's path and got banged out the way, albeit aggressively. He then retaliated and came off worse. Fact is, he instigated the entire thing, chose to take it further by chasing Flower and striking him in the face with the forearm, and came off second best.

But let me be clear, despite the hysterical wailing on here, no-one is defending the final punch. It was a step too far and he will rightly face a strong punishment.

What some Wigan fans don't seem to be getting is that the "mitigation" of what went on before doesn't matter at all. We're dealing with two separate things here. The first thing is the barges and the first punch all rolled up together, and you can argue about who deserved what and what was justified and what bans are deserved because of that. All that is small-time and doesn't really matter.

The second, entirely separate thing is the punch on the ground which was - and we all agree - ridiculously dangerous and is on front pages and news bulletins around the world.

Why has is got this coverage? Because it was *extraordinary*. It's that extraordinary that it has to be taken in isolation and be treated as an unprecedented event beyond RL's regular disciplinary charge sheet. If we want to undo some of the damage done by this one act and reverse all this deserved bad publicity there really is a case to show such things are so unacceptable in our sport that they're punished with a life ban.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:03 am  

William Eve wrote:

The game is in desperate need of another Zak episode.

Just for the sake of distraction, obviously.

The thing is, no one gave a sh*t about that apart from RL fans themselves. But in this instance we are getting it from all angles.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:04 am  

craigizzard wrote:

Why has is got this coverage? Because it was *extraordinary*. It's that extraordinary that it has to be taken in isolation and be treated as an unprecedented event beyond RL's regular disciplinary charge sheet. If we want to undo some of the damage done by this one act and reverse all this deserved bad publicity there really is a case to show such things are so unacceptable in our sport that they're punished with a life ban.

Agreed. Flower should face a life ban and criminal prosecution.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:06 am  

craigizzard wrote:

What some Wigan fans don't seem to be getting is that the "mitigation" of what went on before doesn't matter at all. We're dealing with two separate things here. The first thing is the barges and the first punch all rolled up together, and you can argue about who deserved what and what was justified and what bans are deserved because of that. All that is small-time and doesn't really matter.

The second, entirely separate thing is the punch on the ground which was - and we all agree - ridiculously dangerous and is on front pages and news bulletins around the world.

Why has is got this coverage? Because it was *extraordinary*. It's that extraordinary that it has to be taken in isolation and be treated as an unprecedented event beyond RL's regular disciplinary charge sheet. If we want to undo some of the damage done by this one act and reverse all this deserved bad publicity there really is a case to show such things are so unacceptable in our sport that they're punished with a life ban.

Well said.

Not sure about a life ban, but a message needs to be sent. A much wider audience is watching ...

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:07 am  

bewareshadows wrote:

I challenge you to try and block my run for a chasing ball and see if I lamp you, because that's my nature or simply pick one of the 20 meters either side of you.

Try and block an uncompromising prop running full pelt for the ball and see how you get on. I'd wager my mortgage you'd get banged out the way in no uncertain terms.

Fact is, if he hadn't stepped into Flower's path none of it would have happened. If he hadn't struck Flower in the face with the forearm he would never have been punched. Hohaia knows all the tricks in the book but chose the wrong battle twice in quick succession last night.

Sorry that you feel that saying night is some how equivalent to name calling. This over reaction thing must be catching.

I've already explained it once. If it upsets you so much you're in the wrong place.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:10 am  

Cronus wrote:

Try and block an uncompromising prop running full pelt for the ball and see how you get on. I'd wager my mortgage you'd get banged out the way in no uncertain terms.

Fact is, if he hadn't stepped into Flower's path none of it would have happened. If he hadn't struck Flower in the face with the forearm he would never have been punched. Hohaia knows all the tricks in the book but chose the wrong battle twice in quick succession last night.

Sorry that you feel that saying night is some how equivalent to name calling. This over reaction thing must be catching.[/quote]
I've already explained it once. If it upsets you so much you're in the wrong place.[/quote]
had the second punch not happened, I think both would have walked (for ten, or the full game, unsure) once Flower sent the second one in it's was all bets off as to Hohia getting anything and he was trying to find parts of his face.

not sure what went on with the quote, bit in bold is my comment

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:11 am  

craigizzard wrote:

What some Wigan fans don't seem to be getting is that the "mitigation" of what went on before doesn't matter at all. We're dealing with two separate things here. The first thing is the barges and the first punch all rolled up together, and you can argue about who deserved what and what was justified and what bans are deserved because of that. All that is small-time and doesn't really matter.

The second, entirely separate thing is the punch on the ground which was - and we all agree - ridiculously dangerous and is on front pages and news bulletins around the world.

Why has is got this coverage? Because it was *extraordinary*. It's that extraordinary that it has to be taken in isolation and be treated as an unprecedented event beyond RL's regular disciplinary charge sheet. If we want to undo some of the damage done by this one act and reverse all this deserved bad publicity there really is a case to show such things are so unacceptable in our sport that they're punished with a life ban.

Not sure why you posted this in reply to me, someone who has clearly, several times, singled out the final punch as inexcusable and deserving of strong punishment.

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:12 am  

Cronus wrote:

Please. You see that sort of thing fairly often. Someone steps in the way to impede a chaser and gets banged out the way. That was nothing despite your pitiful bleating.

Once again, the second punch was inexcusable but give over painting Hohaia as some innocent victim.

No offence but it's a bit difficult to provoke someone into punching you when you're out cold on the floor. You can wind the clock back as much as you want.

Good to see the hard man followed this up by leavin the ground early to be consoled by his parents. Ha ha ha

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:13 am  

Cronus wrote:

Please. You see that sort of thing fairly often. Someone steps in the way to impede a chaser and gets banged out the way. That was nothing despite your pitiful bleating.

Once again, the second punch was inexcusable but give over painting Hohaia as some innocent victim.

HE PUNCHED HIM IN THE BACK OF THE HEAD

HE DIDNT NUDGE HIM, PUSH HIM, BANG HIM

HE PUNCHED HIM IN THE BACK OF THE HEAD, ALREADY A COWARDLY ACT, BY A COWARDLY PLAYER IN A TEAM OF COWARDS COACHED BY A THUG OF A COACH

NO EXCUSES

Re: Ben Flower : Sun Oct 12, 2014 11:14 am  

Maccbull_BigBullyBooaza wrote:

No offence but it's a bit difficult to provoke someone into punching you when you're out cold on the floor. You can wind the clock back as much as you want.

Good to see the hard man followed this up by leavin the ground early to be consoled by his parents. Ha ha ha

Hohia picked the wrong guy, on the wrong day to elbow in the face. Doesn't make what Flower did acceptable, but Hohia is a dirty players as well.