: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:11 pm  

Pretty much pointless looking at the league table until round 13 IMO

: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:42 pm  

Mild mannered Janitor wrote:

Pretty much pointless looking at the league table until round 13 IMO

It's not pointless. I know what you mean in that round 13 will logically be a better indicator but not as good as round 26. However the fact remains that if you have real ambitions for a crack at the title the 0-2 points is not where you want to be after 5 games. I doubt very much that any team has won SL from this position in the past although I suspect some like Wigan have crept in. Clearly Bradford, Wigan and Warrington will have their purple patches but it will be a big ask to mount a credible challenge from now, especially from Warrington.

: Tue Mar 17, 2009 10:22 pm  

wigan got to the final eliminator for the last 2 years so I think our place in this "Big 4" is still there. Id say the big 4 are

leeds
wigan
saints
hull fc

( in no particular order)

youve got to look at several things for a "big" club not just on field performances.

leeds- great ground, great average attendances, great youth structure, good backing from the board.

saints- shocking ground, average attendance on the up!, great youth set up, good board backing.

wigan- great ground, good average attendance, great youth structure (academy and reserve grand finals last year), a new board who are backing the club after the shambles from MO and Dave Whelan

Hull Fc- fantastic ground, good average attendance, not sure on the youth set up at hull but they have brought fantastic players through such as tom brisocoe, good board backing.

bradford are the team severley slipping out of this top 4- there ground isnt the best, attendance is slipping but is still good, away support is poor, not sure on their academy structure?, seem to be losing money.

: Tue Mar 17, 2009 11:34 pm  

Newton-Le-willows-Warrior wrote:

wigan got to the final eliminator for the last 2 years so I think our place in this "Big 4" is still there. Id say the big 4 are

leeds
wigan
saints
hull fc

( in no particular order)

youve got to look at several things for a "big" club not just on field performances.

leeds- great ground, great average attendances, great youth structure, good backing from the board.

saints- shocking ground, average attendance on the up!, great youth set up, good board backing.

wigan- great ground, good average attendance, great youth structure (academy and reserve grand finals last year), a new board who are backing the club after the shambles from MO and Dave Whelan

Hull Fc- fantastic ground, good average attendance, not sure on the youth set up at hull but they have brought fantastic players through such as tom brisocoe, good board backing.

bradford are the team severley slipping out of this top 4- there ground isnt the best, attendance is slipping but is still good, away support is poor, not sure on their academy structure?, seem to be losing money.

Don't think that's too unreasonable an analysis overall right now, although some points I could take issue with.

Regarding your Bradford points: the Academy structure is coming on strongly after several years of neglect - I'd say watch this space over the rest of the current franchise period as quite a few people may be quite surprised. The costs of running the ground are killing us. We need the Odsal Sporting Village pretty badly - signs are far more hopeful than for a long time now, with e.g. £15m earmarked by the Council out of the airport sale proceeds. Attendances are slipping badly - nothing a run of wins won't put right The club is NOT losing money and has no debts - its one of the few thats profitable in the competition. We need to be though, cos we don't have a rich backer and not much to fall back on.

: Wed Mar 18, 2009 8:59 am  

vastman wrote:

It's not pointless. I know what you mean in that round 13 will logically be a better indicator but not as good as round 26. However the fact remains that if you have real ambitions for a crack at the title the 0-2 points is not where you want to be after 5 games. I doubt very much that any team has won SL from this position in the past although I suspect some like Wigan have crept in. Clearly Bradford, Wigan and Warrington will have their purple patches but it will be a big ask to mount a credible challenge from now, especially from Warrington.

I also see what you mean, but it was only 2 years ago that Hudds started off with 7 straight losses but still ended up in their highest SL finish and in the play offs.

: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:07 am  

Mild mannered Janitor wrote:

I also see what you mean, but it was only 2 years ago that Hudds started off with 7 straight losses but still ended up in their highest SL finish and in the play offs.

Whichever way you view it, having 10 and 8 points in the bag at this stage is a far better scenario than not

: Wed Mar 18, 2009 11:55 am  

Which Big 4 are we talking about? Are we going on league positions or average crowds? Cos that will give you two very different Big 4's.

On attendances surely the Big 4 are Leeds, Hull, Wigan and a number of teams for no4 spot from Saints/Wire/Bradford/Hull KR

: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:01 pm  

spooneryork wrote:

:) Which Big 4 are we talking about? Are we going on league positions or average crowds? Cos that will give you two very different Big 4's.

On attendances surely the Big 4 are Leeds, Hull, Wigan and a number of teams for no4 spot from Saints/Wire/Bradford/Hull KR

If it was away support, Hull KR, occupy 1, 2, 3 & 4

: Wed Mar 18, 2009 12:13 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

anybody got a table from this time last year? the year before?

id there that much of a difference?

2008 (after 5 rounds):
P W D L F A Pts
Leeds 5 4 1 0 148 74 8
Harlequins 5 4 1 0 132 87 8
Warrington 5 4 1 0 153 116 8
St Helens 5 4 1 0 138 121 8
Wigan 5 3 2 0 145 114 6
Bradford 5 2 3 0 112 106 4
Huddersfield 5 2 3 0 114 112 4
Hull KR 5 2 3 0 108 113 4
Wakefield 5 2 3 0 104 156 4
Les Catalans 5 1 4 0 83 130 2
Hull 5 1 4 0 87 136 2
Castleford 5 1 4 0 96 155 2


2007 (after 5 rounds):
P W D L F A Pts
Bradford 5 4 1 0 164 114 8
Wakefield 5 4 1 0 133 86 8
Hull KR 5 4 1 0 89 81 8
St Helens 5 3 2 0 128 87 6
Leeds 5 3 2 0 106 94 6
Warrington 5 3 2 0 92 130 6
Harlequins 5 2 2 1 82 69 5
Wigan 5 2 3 0 88 102 4
Les Catalans 5 1 3 1 76 100 3
Hull 5 1 3 1 60 84 3
Salford 5 1 3 1 96 140 3
Huddersfield 5 0 5 0 58 85 0

: Wed Mar 18, 2009 1:02 pm  

TBH there's never been a big 4 in SL. It's more like a big 2 (Bradford and Saints at the begining now Leeds have taken Bradford's place) but tbh there's only been 1 team in SL history who've had a sustained rate of success and that'd be saints