Re: Dr Koukash seeks vote of no confidence in RFL : Tue May 17, 2016 10:14 pm  

Kiyan wrote:

To me it appears he has tried to do it behind the scenes ( with some well placed public outbursts) and 4 years down the line has given up and is feels the only option is to bring it to a head in public.

Reading lots of RL forums, the general consensus is that N Wood has to go. Dr K has been beating that drum quietly and loudly for 4 years; Nigel is still there on £250k a year ( more than any SL player), flying first class to Dubai, Canada, etc so how long do you wait before doing what most RL fans think is long overdue?

Probably cheaper to fly 1st class than buy two seats

Re: Dr Koukash seeks vote of no confidence in RFL : Wed May 18, 2016 1:28 am  

The leaders/people running the sport haven't being fit for purpose since the late 50s/early 60s
The sport has had opportunity after opportunity to become bigger and more attractive to the rest of the country and indeed the ROTW but failed absolutely miserably.
This down to self serving, self preserving, un-imaginative, unintelligent, unprofessional tools with next to zero understanding of pretty much anything.
There's always being a lack of understanding of market forces and lack of any ability whatsoever to exploit all the fantastic attributes the sport has always had.
Yes union has had some advantages of recent times but the sport was a complete backwater TV/media wise compared to RL for decades.

When you have the 2nd/3rd biggest attended domestic sport scrabbling around at last minute year on year for the main comp sponsors and giving the rights away for no money at all one year (and zero provable benefit from the in kind payment), when you have main events being sorted less than 6 months beforehand, with next to no promotion and so many other ongoing issues pointed out already then it's pretty obvious the people and set up of the organisation that runs the sport is struggling...and that is being generous.
Clear the decks from top to toe, including the disgrace that is the judiciary and the people/set up of the officials.
We can continue on and will do, the game won't ever die, I've no doubt about that, but market share is going to get ever smaller the way things are going and that will have a detrimental effect to the game as a whole from grass roits up.
It's facking depressing

Re: Dr Koukash seeks vote of no confidence in RFL : Wed May 18, 2016 5:53 am  

I'm optimistic. I was at the rhinos challenge this weekend and saw 6000 people enjoying junior rugby league. Over 1000 talented youngsters playing and enjoying the game. The interest is out there.

Re: Dr Koukash seeks vote of no confidence in RFL : Wed May 18, 2016 6:02 am  

jools wrote:

I'm optimistic. I was at the rhinos challenge this weekend and saw 6000 people enjoying junior rugby league. Over 1000 talented youngsters playing and enjoying the game. The interest is out there.

We know the interest is out there, we were all optimistic after the last word cup. The rfl always find a way to make any opportunity come to zero. The sport is going backwards fast and something has to be done

Re: Dr Koukash seeks vote of no confidence in RFL : Wed May 18, 2016 6:58 am  

Him wrote:

Over several years, 5 IIRC. Which is nothing when there are very few other significant forms of revenue, the next biggest being government funding.

If we want development we have to pay for it, it won't just magically happen. We have to invest in development areas.

Personally, I'd take £300k off the tv payments to each SL club to give us £3.6m as a development fund from which one or two areas can be targeted with funds that might make a difference when spent consistently year on year. Rather than the scattergun effect we currently have.

That's 32m from the SL part of the TV contract. Not the international rights challenge cup etc plus they have all the other income streams they have. They get more than 6m a year from SL clubs. For an organisation who had sport England money taken from them because they were so bad at spending it its a bit of a stretch to trust them with more

Re: Dr Koukash seeks vote of no confidence in RFL : Wed May 18, 2016 7:06 am  

knockersbumpMKII wrote:

The leaders/people running the sport haven't being fit for purpose since the late 50s/early 60s
The sport has had opportunity after opportunity to become bigger and more attractive to the rest of the country and indeed the ROTW but failed absolutely miserably.
This down to self serving, self preserving, un-imaginative, unintelligent, unprofessional tools with next to zero understanding of pretty much anything.
There's always being a lack of understanding of market forces and lack of any ability whatsoever to exploit all the fantastic attributes the sport has always had.
Yes union has had some advantages of recent times but the sport was a complete backwater TV/media wise compared to RL for decades.

When you have the 2nd/3rd biggest attended domestic sport scrabbling around at last minute year on year for the main comp sponsors and giving the rights away for no money at all one year (and zero provable benefit from the in kind payment), when you have main events being sorted less than 6 months beforehand, with next to no promotion and so many other ongoing issues pointed out already then it's pretty obvious the people and set up of the organisation that runs the sport is struggling...and that is being generous.
Clear the decks from top to toe, including the disgrace that is the judiciary and the people/set up of the officials.
We can continue on and will do, the game won't ever die, I've no doubt about that, but market share is going to get ever smaller the way things are going and that will have a detrimental effect to the game as a whole from grass roits up.
It's facking depressing

Sorry but, to say that Union was behind league is just wrong.

Although the club game was perhaps behind league in some areas, the International game of Union, has been and still is so far in front of League that, we are in the metaphorical Vauxhall Conference compared to Premier League.
Yes, Union has massively exploited the revenue streams connected with this but, everything stems from the International scene and shutters down from this.
In League, we are trying to go the other way and we try to suggest that the "product" is so good, why shouldn't we get the same as Union but, in this respect, Union has such a head start on league that it is impossible for us to catch up, notwithstanding that it is the sport of the Establishment and like it or not, we are "just a Northern" sport and too many inward looking people are actually happy with this.

The second part of your post is spot on and if we cant do some of the basics right, we just come across as amateur and it's no surprise that we are not taken seriously.

Re: Dr Koukash seeks vote of no confidence in RFL : Wed May 18, 2016 7:48 am  

We struggle to get a sponsor because we aren't an attractive market for sponsors. It's got little to do with the RFL in that sense.
The same goes for internationals or events. They're organised "late" because we don't have our own stadium so we're working around other schedules.

Re Smokeys post - the RFL had Sport England money taken away from them because the targets were unrealistic. And the Sport England numbers are compiled in a way that doesn't help RL (age 14+ IIRC).

Whatever way you want to look at it the RFL need more money. In 2014 their income was £19m. That's sod all with which to run a major sport including the RFL events.

If we want a better RFL we have to pay for it. As Bramley said, the clubs currently (and have for a long time) hold the prime responsibility for marketing, player development etc etc and they make the RFL look professional.

The RFL needs a bigger staff, a bigger base and better leadership to give it the teeth that's needed to push this game forward. Because the clubs sure as hell aren't going to do it.

Re: Dr Koukash seeks vote of no confidence in RFL : Wed May 18, 2016 8:03 am  

Him wrote:

We struggle to get a sponsor because we aren't an attractive market for sponsors. It's got little to do with the RFL in that sense.
The same goes for internationals or events. They're organised "late" because we don't have our own stadium so we're working around other schedules.

Re Smokeys post - the RFL had Sport England money taken away from them because the targets were unrealistic. And the Sport England numbers are compiled in a way that doesn't help RL (age 14+ IIRC).

Whatever way you want to look at it the RFL need more money. In 2014 their income was £19m. That's sod all with which to run a major sport including the RFL events.

If we want a better RFL we have to pay for it. As Bramley said, the clubs currently (and have for a long time) hold the prime responsibility for marketing, player development etc etc and they make the RFL look professional.

The RFL needs a bigger staff, a bigger base and better leadership to give it the teeth that's needed to push this game forward. Because the clubs sure as hell aren't going to do it.

£19m sod all?

What do they actaqlly use that money for? It's £18.9m too much for what they actually deliver!

Re: Dr Koukash seeks vote of no confidence in RFL : Wed May 18, 2016 8:30 am  

The key to the sports future IMO is the international game. To compare us with football is unrealistic as globally no sport compares. A reasonable comparison is sports like Rugby Union and cricket. Their funding is significantly more than ours and that is a result of internationals. We need a set international calendar playing regular games and space in the domestic calendar to do so. I would like to see something like

Year 1 - 6 nations style (with possibly a final) Northern Hemisphere comp, at first England, France, Wales, Scotland & Ireland looking to add Canada & the USA and a similar Southern Hemisphere comp with Australia, NZ, Fiji, PNG & Samoa
Year 2 - Several mid season 'friendlies' then end of season 4 nations (England, Australia, NZ plus another) alternating between northern and Southern Hemispheres with a side competition determining the 4th nation for the next cycle
Year 3 - Same as year 1
Year 4 - Several mid season 'friendlies' plus an end of season World Cup.

This would achieve several things. Firstly generate revenue for the governing bodies to invest into expansion, youth development and grass roots, secondly having a guaranteed 4 or 5 matches a year with also a guarantee of playing the bigger nations would hopefully encourage more players to opt for their nation of birth rather than choosing to play for Australia/NZ because of the guarantee of matches and thirdly increase the profile of the game which would also (hopefully) lead to increased sponsorship.

I'm well aware it would take time for the (for want of a better word) lesser nations to become competitive, they never will without actually playing the matches in the first place.

Following on from this the long term vision should be looking to add teams from Wales, Scotland, Ireland, USA and Canada into Super League and teams from PNG, Fiji and Samoa into the NRL. Having a play off system means there is no real need for everyone to play each other home and away so this could be done step by step by increasing the number of teams without increasing the number of matches. The only logical way to do this would be an eventual return to franchising, I know this won't go down well with a lot of lower league supporters but I think for the sport as a whole it is the way forward.

Re: Dr Koukash seeks vote of no confidence in RFL : Wed May 18, 2016 8:54 am  

Him wrote:

We struggle to get a sponsor because we aren't an attractive market for sponsors. It's got little to do with the RFL in that sense.
The same goes for internationals or events. They're organised "late" because we don't have our own stadium so we're working around other schedules.

It has everything to do with the rfl. They create the product to sell and the environment in which to sell it. They are the ones who created/allowed the meat raffle at the working mens club aura around the game which puts sponsors off and they are the ones that by not having bookings and plans in place organise everything late and create an environment where it is difficult to sell internationals.

Re Smokeys post - the RFL had Sport England money taken away from them because the targets were unrealistic. And the Sport England numbers are compiled in a way that doesn't help RL (age 14+ IIRC).

Whatever way you want to look at it the RFL need more money. In 2014 their income was £19m. That's sod all with which to run a major sport including the RFL events.

If we want a better RFL we have to pay for it. As Bramley said, the clubs currently (and have for a long time) hold the prime responsibility for marketing, player development etc etc and they make the RFL look professional.

The RFL needs a bigger staff, a bigger base and better leadership to give it the teeth that's needed to push this game forward. Because the clubs sure as hell aren't going to do it.

You have swallowed the RFL' pathetic defence of their failure hook line and sinker. The rfl bid for that money. It was based on their plans and their projections. That money hasn't disappeared it has simply been given to people better trusted to spend it wisely. They failed. It's not a conspiracy or luck or bureaucratic nightmare. It's a failure. One of a litany of RFL failures. In fact the only real success of Woods RFL has been the wholesale lowering of ambition and expectation of a game that now sees any kind of real success as out of reach and any failure as unavoidable and inevitable.

BTW that 19m which is 'sod all' is double what any club in SL turns over and only slightly less than the entire amount SL spends on players for 12 clubs