Re: Expansion done right : Sat Sep 10, 2016 4:34 pm  

Can the game afford to be held back by clubs who have always struggled to succeed and draw more fans at a higher level. Can the game afford to be held back by the flat earth society and the ludites who cant see further then the m62. Can the game also afford to be ran by the current regime who seem to lack the nous to advertise the game better and draw more revenue to fund expansion.
I dont know the answers but believe if the game doesnt expand it will remain a minority back water sport and stagnate.

Re: Expansion done right : Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:28 pm  

ragstorm wrote:

Can the game afford to be held back by clubs who have always struggled to succeed and draw more fans at a higher level. Can the game afford to be held back by the flat earth society and the ludites who cant see further then the m62. Can the game also afford to be ran by the current regime who seem to lack the nous to advertise the game better and draw more revenue to fund expansion.
I dont know the answers but believe if the game doesnt expand it will remain a minority back water sport and stagnate.

Explain how these clubs are holding back the sport ?

Re: Expansion done right : Sat Sep 10, 2016 6:27 pm  

They are not holding back the sport at all. Dropping teams into the top flight just does not work. We have had so many failures of trying to fake teams being top flight teams.

Selection will never surpass sporting achievement.

If Toulouse put on a good show in 2017 I can see the RFL saying that they will expand SL in 2018 to 14 teams. But they need the fans and they need the product on the field.

All those who want expansion regardless of sporting outcomes are blinkered to what most people want to see. People watch sport for the competition not for a rigged system with no consequences.

If Catalan, Toulouse, London, Canada and Wrexham were all dropped into SL in 2018 and told they would face no possibility of relegation at the expense of say, Hull KR, Huddersfield, Widnes, Leigh and Wakefield I think it would basically draw up the bridge again, numbers watching would drop and quite frankly fans would get bored as there would be no competition. Just several rounds of meaningless games.


With the current set up, teams can grow like all other sporting teams in the UK.

With some RL expansionists in charge of the Premier league there would have been no Leicester City phenomenon.

They would have been so appalled that a small team could do so well they would probably remove them from the competition mid-way through the season.

Re: Expansion done right : Sat Sep 10, 2016 7:16 pm  

Football isnt a fair comparison as it has world wide appeal. Rl has a salary cap , a narrow team base( the m62 cats aside) and a similar rival sport in ru. Whilst the heartland clubs should never be forgotten should the larger clubs be held back by smaller clubs. Nrl has seen many teams amalgamate to survive which has allowed other teams to form and join and storm are a great example of this, as are a few others. I believe in promotion/ relegation as the lower clubs need a target to aim for but some will never have the fan base to succeed due to their location and size of the local population as well as rival sports to contend with.

Re: Expansion done right : Sat Sep 10, 2016 7:17 pm  

Football isnt a fair comparison as it has world wide appeal. Rl has a salary cap , a narrow team base( the m62 cats aside) and a similar rival sport in ru. Whilst the heartland clubs should never be forgotten should the larger clubs be held back by smaller clubs. Nrl has seen many teams amalgamate to survive which has allowed other teams to form and join and storm are a great example of this, as are a few others. I believe in promotion/ relegation as the lower clubs need a target to aim for but some will never have the fan base to succeed due to their location and size of the local population as well as rival sports to contend with.

Re: Expansion done right : Sat Sep 10, 2016 7:29 pm  

ragstorm wrote:

Football isnt a fair comparison as it has world wide appeal. Rl has a salary cap , a narrow team base( the m62 cats aside) and a similar rival sport in ru. Whilst the heartland clubs should never be forgotten should the larger clubs be held back by smaller clubs. Nrl has seen many teams amalgamate to survive which has allowed other teams to form and join and storm are a great example of this, as are a few others. I believe in promotion/ relegation as the lower clubs need a target to aim for but some will never have the fan base to succeed due to their location and size of the local population as well as rival sports to contend with.

Again

Explain HOW a small club is holding anybody back ?

Just answer the bloody question

Re: Expansion done right : Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:57 am  

Sorry i mean more a small club mentality,because many fans would oppose rl spending enough cash to start , fund and sustain a club in a new area to win major honours and buid a fan base on the back of success.

and because we have many small proud clubs struggling to stay afloat in areas were they are competing with other small proud clubs for fans and resources. If clubs within a small geographic location amalgamated they would in time compete with the larger rl clubs due to uniting their resources and fan base meaning they would be more self sufficient as the local fan base would not be divided and their cash would go in one pot allowing rl to concentrate more cash on expansion

Re: Expansion done right : Sun Sep 11, 2016 7:19 am  

bewareshadows wrote:

They are not holding back the sport at all. Dropping teams into the top flight just does not work. We have had so many failures of trying to fake teams being top flight teams.

Selection will never surpass sporting achievement.

If Toulouse put on a good show in 2017 I can see the RFL saying that they will expand SL in 2018 to 14 teams. But they need the fans and they need the product on the field.

All those who want expansion regardless of sporting outcomes are blinkered to what most people want to see. People watch sport for the competition not for a rigged system with no consequences.

If Catalan, Toulouse, London, Canada and Wrexham were all dropped into SL in 2018 and told they would face no possibility of relegation at the expense of say, Hull KR, Huddersfield, Widnes, Leigh and Wakefield I think it would basically draw up the bridge again, numbers watching would drop and quite frankly fans would get bored as there would be no competition. Just several rounds of meaningless games.


With the current set up, teams can grow like all other sporting teams in the UK.

With some RL expansionists in charge of the Premier league there would have been no Leicester City phenomenon.

They would have been so appalled that a small team could do so well they would probably remove them from the competition mid-way through the season.

Re: Expansion done right : Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:15 am  

ragstorm wrote:

Sorry i mean more a small club mentality,because many fans would oppose rl spending enough cash to start , fund and sustain a club in a new area to win major honours and buid a fan base on the back of success.

and because we have many small proud clubs struggling to stay afloat in areas were they are competing with other small proud clubs for fans and resources. If clubs within a small geographic location amalgamated they would in time compete with the larger rl clubs due to uniting their resources and fan base meaning they would be more self sufficient as the local fan base would not be divided and their cash would go in one pot allowing rl to concentrate more cash on expansion

Explain ' Small club mentality ' ?

So which clubs do you believe should amalgamate ? , who should Leigh amalgamate with ? , Halifax ?

So what you are really saying is like Mr Peacock you begrudge Batley their hard earned money

Re: Expansion done right : Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:07 am  

I think dropping teams into the top flight only works under a licencing system with a very strict criteria which creates a target for so called 'lesser' clubs both on and off the field.

I think attempting to fast track teams under the current format would work, it would rock too many boats, and imo any expansion team needs time to bed in in one place, the one recent example we have where we followed this was Catalan. If I remember rightly they had exemption from relegation and I can't see a way that works in the 8's system.

Personally I've never been too bothered by promotion and relegation, I believe a competitive super league would create enough drama without that added. I also think with the exception of the couple of teams, their aren't many below SL capable of stepping up. For me it takes more than just being competitive on the field to prove that.