Re: Sam Burgess Union debut : Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:07 pm  

Seeing as the RU will be paying a huge chunk of his wage, he'd have to lose a leg not to be fast-tracked into the England set-up. They want some return on their investment. What he does before then will be of little consequence.

Re: Sam Burgess Union debut : Sun Jan 11, 2015 6:26 pm  

He'll probably get a run out against the likes of Italy in the 6 nations but against the likes of Ireland and Wales....probably not. Likewise the WC, in England's group it's hard to see him getting a shot against the Aussies or Welsh but have him play against Uruguay when the win is pretty much guaranteed is likely.

He could well play against the "whipping boys" of the 6N and WC.....but will he play against the contenders in those competitions remains to be seen,

Re: Sam Burgess Union debut : Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:21 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

He'll probably get a run out against the likes of Italy in the 6 nations but against the likes of Ireland and Wales....probably not. Likewise the WC, in England's group it's hard to see him getting a shot against the Aussies or Welsh but have him play against Uruguay when the win is pretty much guaranteed is likely.

He could well play against the "whipping boys" of the 6N and WC.....but will he play against the contenders in those competitions remains to be seen,

Correct.
Money Bill played a total of 7 minutes in the RWC semi and Final combined....he played full games against the groups whipping boys, but when it was down to the key games, he came on at the end as Union coaches seem to empty their benches at the end of games now.
As the Butcher says, the RFU are paying a fair chunk of his salary......something we could look at in League if we took the international game more seriously

Re: Sam Burgess Union debut : Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:26 pm  

The Avenger wrote:

A Rugby League player can come in and command a place in the elite team with just a handfull of games under his belt its very embarrassing for Rugby Onion

That a RL superstar has had to leave Sydney where he was a household name and head to the west of England to earn a decent living isn't exactly filling the good news column for Rugby League either

Re: Sam Burgess Union debut : Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:31 pm  

gutterfax wrote:

That a RL superstar has had to leave Sydney where he was a household name and head to the west of England to earn a decent living isn't exactly filling the good news column for Rugby League either

Blimey!

I agree with Gutterfax. I feel a bit dirty...

Re: Sam Burgess Union debut : Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:39 pm  

TheButcher wrote:

Blimey!

I agree with Gutterfax. I feel a bit dirty...

I am now a supporter of a "proper" RL club in the Championship, so will be expected to talk sense and pour scorn upon the flash harry's of the not so super league

Re: Sam Burgess Union debut : Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:42 pm  

gutterfax wrote:

Correct.
Money Bill played a total of 7 minutes in the RWC semi and Final combined....he played full games against the groups whipping boys, but when it was down to the key games, he came on at the end as Union coaches seem to empty their benches at the end of games now.
As the Butcher says, the RFU are paying a fair chunk of his salary......something we could look at in League if we took the international game more seriously

Difference is though, lack of proper teams in Interntional RL. England in RU have a genuine fight on their hands to escape their group in the WC with Australia and Wales there......in RL you know that Aus, NZ and England will make up the semis with one other.

It's like the six nations. In RU you'd have 4 teams who could seriously compete for the title with the odd whipping boy. If we did the 6 nations in RL with the same nations then England would win every game comfortably by 30/40 points and the rest would scrap it out for 2nd place.

Re: Sam Burgess Union debut : Sun Jan 11, 2015 7:58 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

Difference is though, lack of proper teams in Interntional RL. England in RU have a genuine fight on their hands to escape their group in the WC with Australia and Wales there......in RL you know that Aus, NZ and England will make up the semis with one other.

It's like the six nations. In RU you'd have 4 teams who could seriously compete for the title with the odd whipping boy. If we did the 6 nations in RL with the same nations then England would win every game comfortably by 30/40 points and the rest would scrap it out for 2nd place.

Agree and I think the best solution for this is to get RL into more schools as a first step...you can't create a RL culture, but you can breed one. Get schoolboy internationals on the calendar...a regular tri or quad nations with england, wales France and maybe scotland. Same in the pacific isles......get these kids (u16's & U18's) used to competing against each other.
I am very vocal in my opposition to heritage teams posing as international sides, but until we start with the youth, they are I suppose all we really have.
When these kids leave school, get them signed up to clubs/academies with the best 25 having 30% of their salaries met by the RFL/NRL.......within 10 years you'll have a more competitive Wales and Scotland....Fiji or Samoa with players from those countries.

Re: Sam Burgess Union debut : Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:05 pm  

gutterfax wrote:

Agree and I think the best solution for this is to get RL into more schools as a first step...you can't create a RL culture, but you can breed one. Get schoolboy internationals on the calendar...a regular tri or quad nations with england, wales France and maybe scotland. Same in the pacific isles......get these kids (u16's & U18's) used to competing against each other.
I am very vocal in my opposition to heritage teams posing as international sides, but until we start with the youth, they are I suppose all we really have.
When these kids leave school, get them signed up to clubs/academies with the best 25 having 30% of their salaries met by the RFL/NRL.......within 10 years you'll have a more competitive Wales and Scotland....Fiji or Samoa with players from those countries.

That's the key thing though....."10 years"....not enough patience I think from most. The Crusaders a good example, hoping that if we fast track them into SL we'll have a competitive Welsh team a few years later. The biggest problem RL has in terms of growing new teams outside the traditional areas is not allowing them to grow organically, but instead trying to fast track them before their ready. Realistically the soonest we could expect a competive Wales/Ireland/Scotland IF done right is at least 10 years but probably more.....but patience won't allow that.

Re: Sam Burgess Union debut : Sun Jan 11, 2015 8:14 pm  

ThePrinter wrote:

That's the key thing though....."10 years"....not enough patience I think from most. The Crusaders a good example, hoping that if we fast track them into SL we'll have a competitive Welsh team a few years later. The biggest problem RL has in terms of growing new teams outside the traditional areas is not allowing them to grow organically, but instead trying to fast track them before their ready. Realistically the soonest we could expect a competive Wales/Ireland/Scotland IF done right is at least 10 years but probably more.....but patience won't allow that.

The best that we can hope for in the near future is to include Wales or Scotland in he next 4N but, as things stand, this creates a very easy game for the other teams involved.
However, if we persist with the idea and keep playing the current "second tier" international matches, they may become competitive.
Of course there would need to be some creative thinking about certain players nationalities but, this seems to become less and less important as time goes by.