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Re: Ben Flower : Mon Oct 13, 2014 4:59 pm  
RLBandit wrote:
You ever played the game?


Have you ever punched a defenceless and prone unconscious man in the face?
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Re: Ben Flower : Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:01 pm  
RLBandit wrote:
This running story about Wigan's tactics, if true, ought to be backed up by some statistics. Do Wigan get more Red and Yellow cards? Do teams statistically suffer more injuries against Wigan? I genuinely have no idea. If the answer is yes, you may have a point. Some 'anorak' (meant in the nicest possible way, I promise) might be able to dig these numbers out?


Statistics don't necessarily tell the story though do they? I mean does the fact that Bowen went unsuspended for his incredibly late swinging arm head shot in the first match of the season mean that it didn't happen? Do the late cheap shots to the backs of half backs by many Wigan players, but Flower, Dudson and McIllorum especially not count because for some reason it's not deemed a yellow card offence? Is it alright for a third or fourth tackler to go full bore into the ribs or legs of a restrained opponent incapable of bracing or protecting themselves because Wigan players themselves have ensured that the tackle is not yet completed by holding the guy up and technically it's not illegal?

No doubt you'll respond with an argument that all of these things are offences committed by all teams, and to a degree that's correct, but they seem to happen around Wigan an awful lot.

There might not be an obsession at Wigan about setting a world record for how slowly you can peel off a tackle, and there might not be a scorecard kept for how many half backs they can rattle by deliberately hitting them late and from the back, or one where you get extra points for being third man in and doing a bit of damage. These might not be what Wigan are all about and everyone who questions their tactics might be wrong, but maybe, just maybe, everyone else is right and Wigan's approach to the game has gone beyond aggressive defence and into the realm of 'the dark arts' and therefore no-one should really be surprised when one of the hitmen steps outside the very flimsy boundaries set within the club.
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Re: Ben Flower : Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:01 pm  
FearTheVee wrote:
They say "I'm not defending Flower", then spend hours trying to deflect the conversation towards what Lance did to deserve it.

Then again, they are probably caught up in the culture their club has deliberately cultivated, so no real surprise there.

Then irony is it's Saints fans defending one of their players performing a forearm smash into another player's jaw, while Wigan fans have all said what Flower did was wrong.
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Re: Ben Flower : Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:04 pm  
It also wasn't Wane's voice either...it was the guy who used to do Gerry Adams voice on BBC news bulletins in the 80's.
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Re: Ben Flower : Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:05 pm  
Big Jim Slade wrote:
<snip>
No doubt you'll respond with an argument that all of these things are offences committed by all teams, and to a degree that's correct, but they seem to happen around Wigan an awful lot.
<snip>


'seem' is the key word there. Statistics might help you learn if reality matches perception. Life can be full of surprises when we put our own strongly held views to an objective test.
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Re: Ben Flower : Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:05 pm  
TheElectricGlidingWarrior wrote:
Then irony is it's Saints fans defending one of their players performing a forearm smash into another player's jaw, while Wigan fans have all said what Flower did was wrong.

You Wigan fans :lol:
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Re: Ben Flower : Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:11 pm  
vbfg wrote:
Have you ever punched a defenceless and prone unconscious man in the face?

No.

Had Flower known he was unconscious he wouldn't have done either. ( Which is absolutely no defence to punching a prone player - itself a very poor act which deserves a long ban, but not the first time a punch has ever been thrown at a prone player).

You know that thing you sometimes see on television where all the players look like they're moving really slowly? - slow enough even to make considered decisions before any action? Well, it's not real. Players can't really jump through the air defying gravity like that. It's something magic they do on TV - they can actually slow the action down after the event! Incredible I know, but it all makes more sense when you know what they're doing.
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Re: Ben Flower : Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:15 pm  
RLBandit wrote:
'seem' is the key word there. Statistics might help you learn if reality matches perception. Life can be full of surprises when we put our own strongly held views to an objective test.


Bit reluctant to tackle the rest of it are we? How are those straws you're clutching? Making your hand sore?
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Re: Ben Flower : Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:15 pm  
TheElectricGlidingWarrior wrote:
Then irony is it's Saints fans defending one of their players performing a forearm smash into another player's jaw, while Wigan fans have all said what Flower did was wrong.

Funnily enough, almost all Saints fans I've spoken with (and many on here) are being perfectly sensible and proportional about it, just as every Wigan fan I've spoken with is appalled by what Flower did and would expect (in fact, demand) a long ban. Lance and the St. Helens club also appear entirely rational.

All in contrast to the foaming at the mouth loons who've convinced themselves that one man's moment of madness has nearly destroyed Rugby League and deserves nothing less than a lifetime ban and the resignation of the coach.
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Re: Ben Flower : Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:19 pm  
Big Jim Slade wrote:
Bit reluctant to tackle the rest of it are we? How are those straws you're clutching? Making your hand sore?

Tackling the rest of it would simply turn into a listing of Wigan player's 'sins' versus all the other incidents perpetrated by other clubs' players. So arguing about individual incidents doesn't help determine whether or not the premise is correct - i.e. than Wigan are specifically coached to go out and injure. Hence, some statistics would be far more useful - and if they prove your point, then so be it, you may indeed have a point.
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