: Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:33 pm  

But that's life and business.
The weak die, the strong survive.
Like I said though, no club should be dropped yet. We're all still weak in the grand scheme of British sport so we do need to watch each others backs

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:36 pm  

Dico wrote:

But that's life and business.
The weak die, the strong survive.
Like I said though, no club should be dropped yet. We're all still weak in the grand scheme of British sport so we do need to watch each others backs

Yes I know, but when franchise criteria are in place and being met there's no 'deadwood' to cut out, is there?

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:39 pm  

Dico wrote:

But at this stage can we afford to destroy current clubs in our competition? Some people say there isnt the player pool for 14 teams but I disagree. While I wouldn't be rushing to make it a 20 team league I certainly feel we have the pool for 14.

we are probably at the very edges now, 14 maybe but we cant stretch it much further,

the problem we have is that Widnes are aiming to be ready for 2012, so are Toulouse, then Gateshead, Skolars and Sheffield around 2015, which means we have another 5 clubs looking to be ready for SL in 5 years time (the decision will be made in 2014 for the 2015 season) if all succeed in their plans and are ready when they aim to be, we are going to have a situation where we either expand to 16 in 2012 and 19 in 2015, which is probably too much too soon, we leave clubs who are ready in the championship which isnt a good idea, or we drop one or more of the teams in there

Unless something major went wrong at a club I wouldn't boot them. The worst case scenario at the moment is Wakey not getting a ground but if it actually came down to that I feel they could rent from Cas.

what would be the point in that? when space in the league is at a premium, why not consolidate here?

As for Salford, while it looks slightly gloomy at the moment i'm confident they'll have it sorted in the end.

if Salford havent made movement on their stadium pretty soon, i think they will become manchester

KR I feel are worth a mention. I feel they've made great strides without the massive backing some clubs have and although I'd call CP not quite there yet, they're working hard to rectify that.

they have a decent fan base, besides that they are no further on than wakefield, Cas or a few other clubs,

their problem is they are overshadowed by a much bigger neighbour, i think they are also at risk,

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:41 pm  

Dico wrote:

If the championship became a viable competition you'd still have the Elite clubs in SL. I refer to the clubs you talked about in your previous posts as not being Satisfactory, those clubs wouldn't make the cut and the top 12 or so would.
I'd have the boundary being the Penines pretty much. Or literally the conferences so it would be an all star game between the two.
FWIW I was just providin a slightly different argument, I agree with the conference system, hence why I suggested it. The RFL could reach a major crossroads in the years coming up.

maybe so, i can see the benefits, but i agree, i prefer a conference format

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:41 pm  

Disco wrote:

This is essentially the ethos behind all you're arguing isn't it? "Screw the little guy, they don't maximise my profits". My stance revolves around avoiding disillusioning even the little guy when there's no real reason to do so, and when you continually refer to that as a "strange" way of thinking I just feel sorry for you.

this is sport and life for you

elite isnt for the little guy its for the elite

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:42 pm  

Disco wrote:

Yes I know, but when franchise criteria are in place and being met there's no 'deadwood' to cut out, is there?

if all clubs were at or close or had route to being A licenses that would be the case,

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 2:52 pm  

The thing with Toulouse is they would be fishing from another pool, that's why I feel they will be ready come 2012.
Widnes/Leigh in 3 years time we should have the player pool to support another club, especially if they have their own youth structures in place (Franchise Criteria) that's my opinion anyway.
Personally I wouldn't be looking to expand further in '15, it's a bit of a way away so hard to tell. If two teams were to be promoted in '12, which I think they will then a current SL club MAY have to go by the wayside.
You mentioned consolidatino between the two Calder Valley clubs. Maybe, however come 2012 one might be in such a stronger position it could well be a takeover never mind a merger. I have a sneaky feeling Wakefield could be dropped depending on how off the field matters progress and many of their playing staff move across however if they can sustain themselves and pass the criteria, they stay, regardless of who's ready below unless that team proves they have their market.

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:20 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

this is sport and life for you

elite isnt for the little guy its for the elite

But it's not 'franchises' for you, is it? How come the Cincinatti Bengals are still in the NFL? They've been consistently sh*t for years after all. How come the Packers are there? Relative to the rest of them, they're a very small town.

Franchising is supposed to be about raising the standard of everyone who has one to an appropriate (in this context, elite) level, then expanding that base for those who aspire to join. For an organisation to lose a franchise they should be either persistently failing to meet the required standard over an extended period or have commited such a heinous sin as to make their continued participation utterly untenable. Given that no organisation is going to willingly commit suicide in that way it should be a very rare thing indeed, wouldn't you agree?

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 3:20 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

if all clubs were at or close or had route to being A licenses that would be the case,

They don't need to be A licenses though do they, because in reality it is impossible for a club outside of SL to put together a bid good enough for an A license. The best they could achieve would I guess be a "strong C".

I imagine that every existing SL club ought to be a B or strong C by 2012 and if I recall correctly clubs can only move up or down 1 grade at a time so even a B would guarantee that clubs inclusion for 6 years which sort of makes life very difficult for any potential new entrants.

: Thu Mar 12, 2009 4:06 pm  

Disco wrote:

But it's not 'franchises' for you, is it? How come the Cincinatti Bengals are still in the NFL? They've been consistently sh*t for years after all. How come the Packers are there? Relative to the rest of them, they're a very small town.

so you would be more comfortable with the owners of say Castleford moving the club lock stock to say leicester?

Franchising is supposed to be about raising the standard of everyone who has one to an appropriate (in this context, elite) level, then expanding that base for those who aspire to join. For an organisation to lose a franchise they should be either persistently failing to meet the required standard over an extended period or have commited such a heinous sin as to make their continued participation utterly untenable. Given that no organisation is going to willingly commit suicide in that way it should be a very rare thing indeed, wouldn't you agree?

i think eventually yeah, but right now we arent at a position where any club is meeting the eventual required standard, any of them,

some arent far away, probably only leeds and hull could say they are close, but both can and need to improve,

the rest arent close, some are very far away indeed

the minimum standard we are asking now is pretty low, and as the league is structured now, i dont believe it is possible for all the clubs to make a the standard we will ask of them, some have made very little progress towards that,

its worth remembering that in your example, there has been many changes to the make up of the the NFL mostly in moving to bigger cities