Re: Dr Koukash seeks vote of no confidence in RFL : Wed May 18, 2016 12:35 pm  

Exiled down south wrote:

1 It is the RFLs primary role to make the sport more attractive and bring on board sponsorship/TV rights/new players/coaches .... etc. It is a business and they are the executive decision makers of the business.

2. Aussies don't have dedicated stadiums but they manage to arrange a programme in advance. Look at the British Lions RU for example

You're making excuses for a poor management group who have, and continue to, under perform.

It isn't a business, not in any regular sense. A business' leadership doesn't have to deal with its own departments making public outbursts or having seperate agendas. In a business it does what the top tells it to, the top is where ALL the power is. That's not the case with RL.

As Bramley says the RFL have limited power over determining the RL market for sponsors due to those conflicting agendas. If the RFL wanted to change the type of person who watches RL to one that is richer, they can't just go and do that because clubs agendas are different. The RFL is obviously trying to expand our market hence the internationals in London and now Liverpool & Coventry. But they're one off games, the regular bread and butter is SL. Which has, on the whole, a market that sponsors aren't too bothered about.

Of course you get some, like at Warrington but it also depends how much money they're putting in. I'm sure a blue chip company would take the SL sponsorship of you offered to them for sod all. But we can't afford to turn down money either.

As for Australia, the NRL are in a far stronger position to negotiate and, crucially, have set schedules for their big games. As we do over here. We know when the Cup Final and Grand Final are going to be each year. It's the games we don't know are actually happening until relatively late. And then we're negotiating with football clubs. Liverpool aren't going to shift a home game for us so they need to wait until they know it's available. Same goes for Ricoh etc etc.

I'm constantly amazed at the attitude that somehow the RFL are all to blame for the lack of decent sponsors. The sport is to blame. We bankrupted ourselves in the 80's & 90's and STILL haven't recovered. We have no money, small support and a poor market for sponsorship.

You could put the RFU's negotiating team in at Red Hall and it would make no difference whatsoever.

What will is altering the make-up of the sport so that more areas of the country are involved and aware of RL. And of course increasing awareness in the heartlands would be beneficial too whenever the clubs decide to pull their fingers out. We call it the heartlands but it's not an indication of strength in that area, it's just where we're least weak.

Re: Dr Koukash seeks vote of no confidence in RFL : Wed May 18, 2016 12:57 pm  

Ste100Centurions wrote:

Couldn't agree more.

MarwanK is right, most sane adults know he is right, the fact that he is a bit of a throbber & has 'as yet' not offered up alternatives is largely irrelevant.

The RFL are killing the game we love for so many Clubs & supporters of Clubs, how can anyone not back him ?
Only the 'protected' Clubs would stay away from this challenge.

I for one hope that he addresses the inequality of a system that allows different rules on salary cap, overseas quotas & P&R restrictions imposed on heatland Clubs for the benefit of development area Clubs based on geographical location.

While it was successful for Catalan it came at the price of 6 years direct entry to SL & exemption from relegation, thus it cost a British RL Club a place in SL.

We have seen it all before with various guises of the London Club & the Welsh & French too & we will see it again with Toulouse Olympique & Toronto Wolfpack.
I would guess that the Cumbrians & the Oldham, Swinton & Batleys of this RL Family would love the same amount of protection & investment by the RFL in their futures.

I firmly believe rhat the RFL are not only incompetent but are actively & negatively impacting on the futures of Clubs like Barrow, Sheffield, Oldham etc.

It really is time for the RFL to wake up & smell the coffee.

Substandard TV deals, substandard structures, substandard vision & substandard leadership creating a substandard RL competition *when compared to Oz*.

Expansion? YES ! But not at any cost.

You do understand what he seems to be suggesting? I might have this wrong from the headlines but he's talking about a new league set up by the 12 SL chairmen. There doesn't seem to be a place at the table for the Championship or other clubs.
"He said that the future of Rugby League lies in the hands of the competition’s 12 chairmen, saying he’s hopeful of arranging a meeting within the next fortnight."
I'd be careful about what is and isn't being suggested.

Re: Dr Koukash seeks vote of no confidence in RFL : Wed May 18, 2016 1:17 pm  

Him wrote:

It isn't a business, not in any regular sense. A business' leadership doesn't have to deal with its own departments making public outbursts or having seperate agendas. In a business it does what the top tells it to, the top is where ALL the power is. That's not the case with RL.

As Bramley says the RFL have limited power over determining the RL market for sponsors due to those conflicting agendas. If the RFL wanted to change the type of person who watches RL to one that is richer, they can't just go and do that because clubs agendas are different. The RFL is obviously trying to expand our market hence the internationals in London and now Liverpool & Coventry. But they're one off games, the regular bread and butter is SL. Which has, on the whole, a market that sponsors aren't too bothered about.

Of course you get some, like at Warrington but it also depends how much money they're putting in. I'm sure a blue chip company would take the SL sponsorship of you offered to them for sod all. But we can't afford to turn down money either.

As for Australia, the NRL are in a far stronger position to negotiate and, crucially, have set schedules for their big games. As we do over here. We know when the Cup Final and Grand Final are going to be each year. It's the games we don't know are actually happening until relatively late. And then we're negotiating with football clubs. Liverpool aren't going to shift a home game for us so they need to wait until they know it's available. Same goes for Ricoh etc etc.

It is a business in every sense. Until we stop pretending that sport is magically different from every other business and our sport is different to any other we will never make any headway.

Not having somewhere to play organised early enough to sell the games property isn't unfortunate circumstance it's just bad business.

Not having value to Blue chip sponsors isn't some conspiracy or bad luck it's bad business creating a bad image through bad decisions.

It's no wonder that blue chip companies don't want involvement with a game that thinks marketing begins and ends with tickets for a fiver and a free beanie hat or some soup.

I'm constantly amazed at the attitude that somehow the RFL are all to blame for the lack of decent sponsors. The sport is to blame. We bankrupted ourselves in the 80's & 90's and STILL haven't recovered. We have no money, small support and a poor market for sponsorship.

You could put the RFU's negotiating team in at Red Hall and it would make no difference whatsoever.

What will is altering the make-up of the sport so that more areas of the country are involved and aware of RL. And of course increasing awareness in the heartlands would be beneficial too whenever the clubs decide to pull their fingers out. We call it the heartlands but it's not an indication of strength in that area, it's just where we're least weak.

The RFL is the centralised leadership of the game. What is the sports failure is there failure. That's what they are taking millions of pounds out of the tv contract for. If all they are responsible for is to put on the cc final and organise referees then we can do that for a hundred grand.

There is a point at which we can no longer blame what happened 35 years ago.

Re: Dr Koukash seeks vote of no confidence in RFL : Wed May 18, 2016 1:46 pm  

Dr Chim Richalds wrote:

You do understand what he seems to be suggesting? I might have this wrong from the headlines but he's talking about a new league set up by the 12 SL chairmen. There doesn't seem to be a place at the table for the Championship or other clubs.
"He said that the future of Rugby League lies in the hands of the competition’s 12 chairmen, saying he’s hopeful of arranging a meeting within the next fortnight."
I'd be careful about what is and isn't being suggested.

I don't think that's what he meant. I took it as it's in the hands of the chairmen to vote no confidence and force through change

Although I do agree he hasn't considered anyone outside of super league, as is so often the case

Re: Dr Koukash seeks vote of no confidence in RFL : Wed May 18, 2016 1:53 pm  

EASTCOASTFC2016 wrote:

£19m sod all?

What do they actaqlly use that money for? It's £18.9m too much for what they actually deliver!

But not for what's consumed in meetings... those biscuits aren't going to pay for themselves.

Re: Dr Koukash seeks vote of no confidence in RFL : Wed May 18, 2016 1:58 pm  

If the other Chairmen ever vote to support a breakaway league with Koukash at the forefront, I'll bare my arrse on't Town Hall steps. Doubt many would even bother turning up to such a meeting.

Re: Dr Koukash seeks vote of no confidence in RFL : Wed May 18, 2016 3:28 pm  

One issue MK did raise that I wasn't aware of was when he mentioned that SL clubs pay Catalans expenses when they come over here. I could understand us doing that for the first couple of seasons in SL but surely they are established and viable enough for them to pay their own way? Other than that, he needs to pick his dummy back up and get on with running his club.

Re: Dr Koukash seeks vote of no confidence in RFL : Wed May 18, 2016 3:38 pm  

Him wrote:
It isn't a business, not in any regular sense. A business' leadership doesn't have to deal with its own departments making public outbursts or having seperate agendas. In a business it does what the top tells it to, the top is where ALL the power is. That's not the case with RL.

As Bramley says the RFL have limited power over determining the RL market for sponsors due to those conflicting agendas. If the RFL wanted to change the type of person who watches RL to one that is richer, they can't just go and do that because clubs agendas are different. The RFL is obviously trying to expand our market hence the internationals in London and now Liverpool & Coventry. But they're one off games, the regular bread and butter is SL. Which has, on the whole, a market that sponsors aren't too bothered about.

Of course you get some, like at Warrington but it also depends how much money they're putting in. I'm sure a blue chip company would take the SL sponsorship of you offered to them for sod all. But we can't afford to turn down money either.

As for Australia, the NRL are in a far stronger position to negotiate and, crucially, have set schedules for their big games. As we do over here. We know when the Cup Final and Grand Final are going to be each year. It's the games we don't know are actually happening until relatively late. And then we're negotiating with football clubs. Liverpool aren't going to shift a home game for us so they need to wait until they know it's available. Same goes for Ricoh etc etc.
It is a business in every sense. Until we stop pretending that sport is magically different from every other business and our sport is different to any other we will never make any headway.

Not having somewhere to play organised early enough to sell the games property isn't unfortunate circumstance it's just bad business.

Not having value to Blue chip sponsors isn't some conspiracy or bad luck it's bad business creating a bad image through bad decisions.

It's no wonder that blue chip companies don't want involvement with a game that thinks marketing begins and ends with tickets for a fiver and a free beanie hat or some soup.

I'm constantly amazed at the attitude that somehow the RFL are all to blame for the lack of decent sponsors. The sport is to blame. We bankrupted ourselves in the 80's & 90's and STILL haven't recovered. We have no money, small support and a poor market for sponsorship.

You could put the RFU's negotiating team in at Red Hall and it would make no difference whatsoever.

What will is altering the make-up of the sport so that more areas of the country are involved and aware of RL. And of course increasing awareness in the heartlands would be beneficial too whenever the clubs decide to pull their fingers out. We call it the heartlands but it's not an indication of strength in that area, it's just where we're least weak.


The RFL is the centralised leadership of the game. What is the sports failure is there failure. That's what they are taking millions of pounds out of the tv contract for. If all they are responsible for is to put on the cc final and organise referees then we can do that for a hundred grand.

There is a point at which we can no longer blame what happened 35 years ago.

Great post Smokey.

Re: Dr Koukash seeks vote of no confidence in RFL : Wed May 18, 2016 5:30 pm  

With tonight's news on Widnes being guilty of having 14 players on the field not once but twice in the same game.
I'm looking at the end of the regular fixtures and hoping Widnes finish eight just a couple of points above other clubs and see who misses out on the top eight and who goes in the middles.

Re: Dr Koukash seeks vote of no confidence in RFL : Wed May 18, 2016 5:34 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

If the other Chairmen ever vote to support a breakaway league with Koukash at the forefront, I'll bare my arrse on't Town Hall steps. Doubt many would even bother turning up to such a meeting.

He specifically said that he isn't interested in heading anything, and that he considers himself a novice chairman who would default to more experienced CEO's.