Re: Expansion done right : Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:57 pm  

Wellsy13 wrote:

It's not a case of expansion fans buying into the expansion sides. It's a case of sports fans buying into the sport. It may be good for Toulouse to be dropped straight in, but many of the rest will not like how it has happened and feel that their place hasn't been earned,thus turning them off it.

That seems crazy, but even if it were true, what would it matter? Casual fans wouldnt care, the potential fanbase of toulouse wouldnt care, who even are these 'rest' that may care and would be turned off the game?

Re: Expansion done right : Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:07 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

They are not holding back the sport at all. Dropping teams into the top flight just does not work. We have had so many failures of trying to fake teams being top flight teams.

Selection will never surpass sporting achievement.

If Toulouse put on a good show in 2017 I can see the RFL saying that they will expand SL in 2018 to 14 teams. But they need the fans and they need the product on the field.

All those who want expansion regardless of sporting outcomes are blinkered to what most people want to see. People watch sport for the competition not for a rigged system with no consequences.

Firstly. How many clubs do you think we have 'dropped into' our top flight.
Secondly, attendances were higher under Franchising. They dropped last year, and dropped again this year.

If Catalan, Toulouse, London, Canada and Wrexham were all dropped into SL in 2018 and told they would face no possibility of relegation at the expense of say, Hull KR, Huddersfield, Widnes, Leigh and Wakefield I think it would basically draw up the bridge again, numbers watching would drop and quite frankly fans would get bored as there would be no competition. Just several rounds of meaningless games.

like now?

With the current set up, teams can grow like all other sporting teams in the UK.

With some RL expansionists in charge of the Premier league there would have been no Leicester City phenomenon.

They would have been so appalled that a small team could do so well they would probably remove them from the competition mid-way through the season.

Leicester City are owned by a multi-billion pound company who has invested hundreds of millions of pounds in to them, breaking the football league financial regulations and making huge losses. Sounds a great way to run a sport.

Re: Expansion done right : Sun Sep 11, 2016 1:11 pm  

Barrie's Glass Eye wrote:

I think dropping teams into the top flight only works under a licencing system with a very strict criteria which creates a target for so called 'lesser' clubs both on and off the field.

I think attempting to fast track teams under the current format would work, it would rock too many boats, and imo any expansion team needs time to bed in in one place, the one recent example we have where we followed this was Catalan. If I remember rightly they had exemption from relegation and I can't see a way that works in the 8's system.

Personally I've never been too bothered by promotion and relegation, I believe a competitive super league would create enough drama without that added. I also think with the exception of the couple of teams, their aren't many below SL capable of stepping up. For me it takes more than just being competitive on the field to prove that.

This is entirely true.

And should this system 'work' and in two or three years the top 4 of the championship is made up of Toulouse, Toronto, London and Hemel, with Leigh, Halifax, Fev etc battling it out for the championship shield, that this system will suddenly be unfair.

Re: Expansion done right : Sun Sep 11, 2016 5:56 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

Firstly. How many clubs do you think we have 'dropped into' our top flight.
.

PSG
London
Gateshead
Wales south / north
Catalan

So roughly 1 every 4 years of SL.

The only one to progress, surprise surprise a club from the Rl heartlands. By expansionist standards not really an expansion.

Re: Expansion done right : Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:04 pm  

bewareshadows wrote:

PSG
London
Gateshead
Wales south / north
Catalan

So roughly 1 every 4 years of SL.

The only one to progress, surprise surprise a club from the Rl heartlands. By expansionist standards not really an expansion.

London were 16 years old at the time of Super League, played in the final top flight winter season and finished ahead of workington, whilst they did get promoted 'off the field as it were' lets not forget, they spent nearly 20 years in the top flight, finished 2nd in SL and reached a CC final.

Crusaders did exactly what you are proposing, they put them in the lowest league and they overspent on overseas players to gain promotion on the field. They were the 2nd best team in the 2nd division a year 2 were promoted.

So we are left with 3. PSG a bad idea poorly executed. Gateshead, did ok before being sacrificed to save a club promoted through P+R, and Les Catalans, unmitigated success.

Re: Expansion done right : Sun Sep 11, 2016 8:11 pm  

SmokeyTA wrote:

London were 16 years old at the time of Super League, played in the final top flight winter season and finished ahead of workington, whilst they did get promoted 'off the field as it were' lets not forget, they spent nearly 20 years in the top flight, finished 2nd in SL and reached a CC final.

Crusaders did exactly what you are proposing, they put them in the lowest league and they overspent on overseas players to gain promotion on the field. They were the 2nd best team in the 2nd division a year 2 were promoted.

So we are left with 3. PSG a bad idea poorly executed. Gateshead, did ok before being sacrificed to save a club promoted through P+R, and Les Catalans, unmitigated success.

Crusaders didn't overspend , they were funded by the Welsh RL development grant via Leighton Samuels company Decor , unfortunately nobody in Bridgend even knew they existed or cared

Re: Expansion done right : Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:35 pm  

This thread so far shows why expansion is the shambles it is. Nothing coherent or consistent.

Re: Expansion done right : Sun Sep 11, 2016 9:52 pm  

Leaguefan wrote:

This thread so far shows why expansion is the shambles it is. Nothing coherent or consistent.

No it shows we have 2 trains of thought , those that want geographical expansion NOW at any cost to the game

And those that understand the benefits of ALL expansion but also that it needs the underlying support of local people for it to be sustainable ,

As I posted earlier and on other threads , we now have the beginnings of a ' second front ' a ' new heartlands ' in the area from Coventry down to the Skolars , across from south Wales to Oxford/Hemel , this area needs support at grass roots with juniors clubs , and eventually we will see some of these fledgling ' pro ' clubs grow

It will not be easy and we don't have a fortune to finance it , but the opportunity is there

Re: Expansion done right : Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:37 pm  

GUBRATS wrote:

Crusaders didn't overspend

Yeah, they did.

Re: Expansion done right : Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:37 pm  

GUBRATS wrote:

No it shows we have 2 trains of thought , those that want geographical expansion NOW at any cost to the game

And those that understand the benefits of ALL expansion but also that it needs the underlying support of local people for it to be sustainable ,

As I posted earlier and on other threads , we now have the beginnings of a ' second front ' a ' new heartlands ' in the area from Coventry down to the Skolars , across from south Wales to Oxford/Hemel , this area needs support at grass roots with juniors clubs , and eventually we will see some of these fledgling ' pro ' clubs grow

It will not be easy and we don't have a fortune to finance it , but the opportunity is there

To be fair, its also shown those needing to hide behind straw men too.