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Re: Ben Flower : Mon Oct 13, 2014 5:58 pm  
FlexWheeler wrote:
I don't know if obtaining statistical evidence would be possible, but it wouldn't suprise if the stats did paint a picture, there was 3 ligament injuries alone in last years grand final involving wigan. The more you think about it the more pop into your head, that have occured, against wigan.


Broken jaw for Kirk Dixon off a Mickey Mac tackle this season.
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实事求是!

Re: Ben Flower : Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:02 pm  
TheElectricGlidingWarrior wrote:
You're probably right, the only time players get injured is when they're playing against Wigan, and I can't remember a non-Wigan player committing any foul play. As for Saints, they definitely don't do things like putting pressure on joints and their disciplinary record is certainly not littered with it...


No one said any of that. You're just exagerating the point to try and make light of it.
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Harrigan wrote:
Wigan are the most structured team I have ever seen in this country.

NickyKiss wrote:
As a fan Wane makes you want to run through a brick wall so you can only imagine how he makes the players feel!


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Re: Ben Flower : Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:03 pm  
SmokeyTA wrote:
I have fully intended to sleep with Cameron Diaz for a couple of years now. There is no statistical evidence of it happening.

The proposition wasnt that Wigan DO injure more people, simply that they intended to.

"I have no evidence that Wigan intend to injure more players, but, but, they just do, alright!" :BOW:
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Re: Ben Flower : Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:06 pm  
TheElectricGlidingWarrior wrote:
"I have no evidence that Wigan intend to injure more players, but, but, they just do, alright!" :BOW:


There's a video of wane telling his players to be reckless and knock players out.
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Harrigan wrote:
Wigan are the most structured team I have ever seen in this country.

NickyKiss wrote:
As a fan Wane makes you want to run through a brick wall so you can only imagine how he makes the players feel!


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Re: Ben Flower : Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:07 pm  
FlexWheeler wrote:
No one said any of that. You're just exagerating the point to try and make light of it.

Ah, so the truth is players from every club get injured by players from every other club?
Dally 
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Re: Ben Flower : Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:09 pm  
The simple fact is that the incident was shocking to both the seasoned RL fan and man in the street. The fact that it has attracted so much comment from outside the game and that this thread is so long already speak to the fact it was exceptional. I therefore think the punishment will be exceptional. I think a season's ban is about the best the lad can reasonably hope for. Not a nice state of affairs but that's how I see it.
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Gotcha in 2016 wrote:
McDermott is going. I actually think he is more relaxed because of it, and seems to have let the shackles go. He apparently asked to finish the season, and that is what they agreed.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: Ben Flower : Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:16 pm  
TheElectricGlidingWarrior's sig wrote:
NickyKiss wrote:
As a fan Wane makes you want to run through a brick wall so you can only imagine how he makes the players feel!


I can only imagine.
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Harrigan wrote:
Wigan are the most structured team I have ever seen in this country.

NickyKiss wrote:
As a fan Wane makes you want to run through a brick wall so you can only imagine how he makes the players feel!


@TheEGW
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Re: Ben Flower : Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:28 pm  
duke street 10 wrote:
Broken jaw for Kirk Dixon off a Mickey Mac tackle this season.

Any other players broke their jaws this season, or just that one caused by Wigan?
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bUsTiNyAbALLs wrote:
Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.


vastman wrote:
My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.

Re: Ben Flower : Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:43 pm  
TheElectricGlidingWarrior wrote:
"I have no evidence that Wigan intend to injure more players, but, but, they just do, alright!" :BOW:

well at least you swung pretty wildly as the point went sailing past.
knockersbumpMKII 
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Re: Ben Flower : Mon Oct 13, 2014 6:51 pm  
It's not the worst I've ever seen but pretty close, certainly the most public and that's where the problem for the sport is in terms of negative publicity.
Anyway, this isn't me defending Flower, this is reasoned thoughts about how/why this has come about. Flower is guilty as sin without doubt, extremely shocking and deserves a very long stint in the stands.
All that said..
I watched that phone camera footage and the look on some of the Wigan players faces said it all (smith in particular stood out), they are under duress, they are being conditioned by Wane to play in a certain style and there's a certain amount of fear in them.
That fear (of losing, of the coach, of being different to your peers/not fitting in, being seen to be the one not following the leader, losing their place/job even) alongside with the mental conditioning that is clearly being passed down to the players has culminated in what happened on Saturday.

Yes it was Flower who threw the punches/started the incident, he was out of control, he completely lost the plot whereas even those in spontaneous anger can often see where the line is drawn. Weak & strong minded people can be conditioned, in such a way that they are doing things without even thinking, even if those things are absolutely and categorically 'wrong'.

Wane & indeed others I'm sure are effectively conditioning young men to harm other human beings. yes in rugby a large element of that is legal, it's part of the sport and we accept that, we accept that there are times in a physical sport with lots of agression people will & do get hurt, that tempers will fray and 'biff' happens. In a gladitorial encounter it is unavoidable. I would never ever want to lose the 'natural' agression that our sport has, but that needs to be tempered with respect for your opponent whom is just another human being, a person not an inanimate object.

BUT there is a line and that was crossed massively (& has being several times of recent) the actions of Flower I believe has being initiated through conditioning to act in an overtly agressive manner, being told it is OK to hurt someone, to be reckless which is hugely wrong. It's not only is damaging to those on the end of it, but it is also damaging to those dishing out the blows (mental health POV, losing job, personal derision from all corners etc). From that it is damaging to the sport as we've seen and not just from a media POV.

The RFL MUST take a much much deeper look at this, they MUST take responsibility and take action NOW! Wane is the one responsible for what happened SAT IMO, he needs to be taken to task and managers/coaches AT ALL LEVELS need to be given firm guidelines with regard to how our sport is being played because one day..we will have a death..we will be looking at one punch manslaughter and somebody will be going to prison and a loved one being told their son is dead because the RFL did fack all to change things..
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