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jools 
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Ferocious Aardvark wrote:
If the other Chairmen ever vote to support a breakaway league with Koukash at the forefront, I'll bare my arrse on't Town Hall steps. Doubt many would even bother turning up to such a meeting.


Wigan, wire, saints Leeds, Catalans, hull and hudds won't support Koukash.
I doubt Widnes would and probably not Cas.
That leaves Salford, KR and Wakey - even though he's completely ignored the championship clubs in his rant they would probably be interested in joining him- shame he peed off Bradford and Leigh they would probably have joined him.
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jools wrote:
Wigan, wire, saints Leeds, Catalans, hull and hudds won't support Koukash.
I doubt Widnes would and probably not Cas.
That leaves Salford, KR and Wakey - even though he's completely ignored the championship clubs in his rant they would probably be interested in joining him- shame he peed off Bradford and Leigh they would probably have joined him.


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"According to our sources, there is only two clubs completely opposed to breaking away in any form. Widnes and Leeds are believed to be those two clubs, with Koukash's advances already finding favour with several disillusioned chairman. As usual, interesting times ahead in rugby league."


http://www.loverugbyleague.com/news_220 ... ip-36.html?
"According to our sources, there is only two clubs completely opposed to breaking away in any form. Widnes and Leeds are believed to be those two clubs, with Koukash's advances already finding favour with several disillusioned chairman. As usual, interesting times ahead in rugby league."


http://www.loverugbyleague.com/news_220 ... ip-36.html?
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Of course Widnes don't want to break away - they just got off lightly with fielding 14 players (twice).

This sport is becoming a joke day by day.
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I agree it the doc. We need change why continue on this downward spiral, as a sport we are struggling. We need a big change but don't think the chairman running it is right, we need new innovative people in and need to push forward. Would to see a champs league with the nrl but omg a better salary cap will help this
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The problem is that the doc is confusing two different issues with one solution.

The RFL is crap Which is true

The RFL treated me wrong over me fiddling the salary cap. Wrong.

The solution for me is to get on with the punishment for the SC breaches. But for the chairman to come up with some ideas on how best to run the game. That has to be a c considered and planned step. Not as a knee jerk reaction
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SmokeyTA wrote:
It is a business in every sense. Until we stop pretending that sport is magically different from every other business and our sport is different to any other we will never make any headway.

But sport IS different to a business. That's just a simple fact of life. And running A sport is more different still. As I said a business has ultimate power at the top. All the major decisions come from there and nobody else in the business can do anything about it. That isn't true of RL is it? Name me a business that has the equivalent of what Koukash has just done?
That doesn't mean it shouldn't be run "like" a business but you have to recognise the differences. In the end the RFL have little power over the SL clubs.

SmokeyTA wrote:
Not having somewhere to play organised early enough to sell the games property isn't unfortunate circumstance it's just bad business.

So which venues were available? It isn't difficult to do. It's not like it takes a great brain to book a venue. It's obvious what the issues are. We don't own any of them. We don't have significant influence over any of them. And we don't bring in any more money than any other event. Why would the venues bend over backwards to accommodate us? The fact is they won't. And they don't. As I said, why would Liverpool be keen to book an RL game in? It's one game, it's unlikely to fill the stadium and it could affect when they play a far, far more lucrative and important premier league game.
Like it or not. We are 2nd choice. And it's got sod all to do with who is organising it.

[/quote]Not having value to Blue chip sponsors isn't some conspiracy or bad luck it's bad business creating a bad image through bad decisions. [/quote]
It's a combination of bad business and of history. Look where our clubs are based. It's in areas that are generally poor. Our supporter base is and always has been relatively poor. We have to overcome that and change that. But our clubs are so weak from the excesses of the past that we also need instant money. But that bad business is from the clubs. It's they who bring the fans in. It's they who market and produce the deals. And it's they who bankrupted the sport 20+ years ago and have done sod all in terms of improvement since.
You can't discount the history of this sport. Sadly we nearly killed ourselves and we're still reaping the whirlwind of those disastrous, calamitous short term decisions by the clubs.



SmokeyTA wrote:
It's no wonder that blue chip companies don't want involvement with a game that thinks marketing begins and ends with tickets for a fiver and a free beanie hat or some soup.

And blue chip sponsors aren't going to be involved in a sport that can't get decent crowds. There's no point whacking up ticket prices when you've done no development work to establish a new, richer set of fans. You'll just end up with fewer of the same fans watching the games.

SmokeyTA wrote:
The RFL is the centralised leadership of the game. What is the sports failure is there failure. That's what they are taking millions of pounds out of the tv contract for. If all they are responsible for is to put on the cc final and organise referees then we can do that for a hundred grand.

Theyre the figurehead for the sport but they don't have the clout or teeth to be a centralised leadership. The sport doesn't allow it and we don't have the centralised income for the RFL to get the teeth necessary.
They're responsible for lots of things but don't have the funds to properly do them.
By comparison to the RFL's income of £19m (which without government funding would be pretty much the same as Leeds Rhinos income) the RFU's is in the hundreds of millions and last year spent over £50m just on overheads.

SmokeyTA wrote:
There is a point at which we can no longer blame what happened 35 years ago.
Well it's not quite as long ago as that though it appears the bad decisions started around then at the clubs and have continued through to today. We had Wigan and Leeds all but go bust 20 years ago. Of course Bradford more recently and you can see some of the current owners itching to go out and spend on players yet bizarrely won't spend on building their club infrastructure and development in their local areas.
The sport suffered a major heart attack and stroke combined in the 80's & 90's. Sadly we've kept stuffing our faces with bacon sarnies and cakes ever since and wondering why we're only still struggling to get out of bed.
Ever since Super League was inaugurated and Uncle Mo lost his way on mergers etc etc the sport has increasingly shifted power away from the RFL and to the clubs.

If we're in a mess (and we are) then the clubs bear AT LEAST equal blame for getting us here. And it's they, with the £120 million from the TV deal who will have to get us out of it, one way or another.
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bUsTiNyAbALLs wrote:
Do not converse with me you filthy minded deviant.


vastman wrote:
My rage isn't impotent luv, I'm frothing at the mouth actually.

Him wrote:
But sport IS different to a business. That's just a simple fact of life. And running A sport is more different still. As I said a business has ultimate power at the top. All the major decisions come from there and nobody else in the business can do anything about it. That isn't true of RL is it? Name me a business that has the equivalent of what Koukash has just done?
That doesn't mean it shouldn't be run "like" a business but you have to recognise the differences. In the end the RFL have little power over the SL clubs.
the equivalent of a business criticising the regulatory body? it isnt very uncommon. Sport is not unique. It is not any more different to a supermarket than a media conglomerate is to a leather factory.

So which venues were available? It isn't difficult to do. It's not like it takes a great brain to book a venue. It's obvious what the issues are. We don't own any of them. We don't have significant influence over any of them. And we don't bring in any more money than any other event. Why would the venues bend over backwards to accommodate us? The fact is they won't. And they don't. As I said, why would Liverpool be keen to book an RL game in? It's one game, it's unlikely to fill the stadium and it could affect when they play a far, far more lucrative and important premier league game.
Like it or not. We are 2nd choice. And it's got sod all to do with who is organising it.
why dont RU have that problem? or Cricket? or Football? How do we manage to book the GF and CC final? If we cant sell an international to Liverpool why are we holding it there? You are looking at the end, finding excuses and then pretending it was inevitable.

It's a combination of bad business and of history. Look where our clubs are based. It's in areas that are generally poor. Our supporter base is and always has been relatively poor. We have to overcome that and change that. But our clubs are so weak from the excesses of the past that we also need instant money. But that bad business is from the clubs. It's they who bring the fans in. It's they who market and produce the deals. And it's they who bankrupted the sport 20+ years ago and have done sod all in terms of improvement since.
You can't discount the history of this sport. Sadly we nearly killed ourselves and we're still reaping the whirlwind of those disastrous, calamitous short term decisions by the clubs.
They can only sell in the environment the RFL create


And blue chip sponsors aren't going to be involved in a sport that can't get decent crowds. There's no point whacking up ticket prices when you've done no development work to establish a new, richer set of fans. You'll just end up with fewer of the same fans watching the games.
But you can create an environment and an image which appeals to a new fanbase.

Theyre the figurehead for the sport but they don't have the clout or teeth to be a centralised leadership. The sport doesn't allow it and we don't have the centralised income for the RFL to get the teeth necessary.
They're responsible for lots of things but don't have the funds to properly do them.
By comparison to the RFL's income of £19m (which without government funding would be pretty much the same as Leeds Rhinos income) the RFU's is in the hundreds of millions and last year spent over £50m just on overheads.

Well it's not quite as long ago as that though it appears the bad decisions started around then at the clubs and have continued through to today. We had Wigan and Leeds all but go bust 20 years ago. Of course Bradford more recently and you can see some of the current owners itching to go out and spend on players yet bizarrely won't spend on building their club infrastructure and development in their local areas.
The sport suffered a major heart attack and stroke combined in the 80's & 90's. Sadly we've kept stuffing our faces with bacon sarnies and cakes ever since and wondering why we're only still struggling to get out of bed.
Ever since Super League was inaugurated and Uncle Mo lost his way on mergers etc etc the sport has increasingly shifted power away from the RFL and to the clubs.

If we're in a mess (and we are) then the clubs bear AT LEAST equal blame for getting us here. And it's they, with the £120 million from the TV deal who will have to get us out of it, one way or another.

Since 1996 the amount of TV money (adjusted for inflation) has gone down. Thats not because of what happened 35 years ago.

This is the RFL's system, its the RFL's tv deal, Its the RFL's organisation and has been for years. We arent here with this system and this tv deal and this environment because the clubs had too much power.

Its the RFL creating an environment where a club is criticised for investing in its product. We can continue to hope that 12 or more clubs independently stumble on to a formula that works but it is very unlikely to happen.

Different sports, and different industries and different companies within those industries show what you need to do to grow. We can continue to insist we are different and that we need to do something different but the results of us doing that wont change.
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I've changed my mind, I don't give a $hit any more. I think it was the discertations that put me off
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"Brian McDermott, with a wry smile, nods when asked if he remembers a specific incident which made him realise he was a prick. 'I do', he murmurs."

It's bizarre to me that there seems to be almost a uniform belief that the game of Rugby League struggles simply because the RFL are "incompetent". Rugby League is and always has been a minority, geographically isolated sport with very passionate fans. Many of those fans simply can't believe that it isn't universally popular and that there has to be an underlying reason and/or someone to blame. They divorce Rugby League from its history and from factors completely outside of the control of anyone in the sport, ignoring that it remains much as it always has been because it's bloody difficult to do anything to shift that status quo in the British sporting market.

The most laughable thing though are the people pointing the finger - Koukash, who has shown nothing at Salford to suggest he understands the strategic requirements for growing the sport within its means, or expanding its player base or fan base. On other occasions it has been Lenagan, who presides over a club whose crowds are consistently falling and who are technically insolvent. Handing over control of the wider sport to the 12 club bosses would be absolute insanity - their self interest would be complete and the rest of the game could go hang. Is the RFL perfect? No. But the clubs and those who run them are even more imperfect and even less transparent.
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