Re: Don't like threads purely about referees but... : Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:56 pm  

Him wrote:

The ref was very poor, both with the big decisions but also throughout the game.

But what annoyed me more was the fact it's the season opener, it's our big kick off of the season, Widnes had done their bit by getting a big crowd in and then what do we do?
Put it on a Thursday night and Sky have a section of their pre-match dedicated to refereeing and the "new" rules/interpretations. It was also done incredibly amateurishly.
Then we have the delight of Stuart Cummings all through the game again. Meaning every red decision that's not 100% is debated by 4 bloody people.
If Sky want to discuss the rules then get Stuart Cummings on Boots n All. There's no need and no place for it on the pre-match build-up to the season opener. Should be all about the clubs and the players not the refs.

Sky's saving grace, as ever, is Wells & Carney. Sadly not given enough time.

I get why people talk about the ref. But I do have an issue with Cummings being in the commentary team.

Last year for me it just made it worse when he would agree that a wrong call had been made. How many other people in world get a real time assessment by their boss of every decision made and then have it published world wide.

It's an utter no win scenario. If the commentators say it's wrong, well then that has no effect on the ref as in the cold light of day in a private assessment there will be a balanced discussion of the things he got right and wrong. But when your boss has to cast judgement then and there, it just seems a big demotivator to being a ref.

I've often said if we had robots reffing people would moan as the game would be one long penalty as none of the players can go a set of six without doing something against the rules.

If the player was hit high, then the sending off is not wrong, it is a possible wrong interpretation but the actual wrong was hitting the player high. ie it was the players fault. It's very rare that a player gets sent off for hitting a player in the chest.

I think it would be a better arguement to say you would interperate the rules differently to the ref got it wrong.
We there any incidents last night were the ref gave a penalty for a tackle around the waist, for just running the ball in?
Everything else is a view. So if Sky say it's not a sending off, that's just their view, it's not a statement of fact.

Re: Don't like threads purely about referees but... : Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:24 pm  

Surely Cummings isn't really Child's 'boss' right now?

I'm no fan of Childs, who was poor throughout, but I accept the point that if the guidelines are, deliberate contact with the head is a straight red, then Ah Van had to go, and the ref had little choice. Personally, I agree with most posters (including most Wigan fans here) that a red card for what seemed like an instinctive and non-malicious challenge looked very harsh.

I'm surprised and disappointed in Smith; that cheap act of petulance seemed out of character. I wonder if he and Tomkins can expect further retrospective action?

Re: Don't like threads purely about referees but... : Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:25 pm  

Him wrote:

The ref was very poor, both with the big decisions but also throughout the game.

But what annoyed me more was the fact it's the season opener, it's our big kick off of the season, Widnes had done their bit by getting a big crowd in and then what do we do?
Put it on a Thursday night and Sky have a section of their pre-match dedicated to refereeing and the "new" rules/interpretations. It was also done incredibly amateurishly.
Then we have the delight of Stuart Cummings all through the game again. Meaning every red decision that's not 100% is debated by 4 bloody people.
If Sky want to discuss the rules then get Stuart Cummings on Boots n All. There's no need and no place for it on the pre-match build-up to the season opener. Should be all about the clubs and the players not the refs.

.

This.

Also what other sport has a referee/umpire in the commentary box to explain the rules of the game to supposedly expert commentators?

If Eddie and Stevo were in any way competent they wouldn't *need* Cummings there. But for some reason the Sky producers want every opportunity to talk about refreeing rather than actual rugby.

Re: Don't like threads purely about referees but... : Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:35 pm  

Ferocious Aardvark wrote:

Apart from the claim that it is for "most" RL fans, I'd say that was pretty much spot on. If you'd said "most fans on social media" then you'd be right. And yes, it's embarrassing.

Because I like to watch the rugby, not sit there with a notebook and keyboard, desperate for some perceived refereeing error to salivate about, I actually enjoyed the match very much, it was very physical, and Widnes did great to claw their way to a draw, plenty of emotion, and incident, plenty of commitment and passion. Unless you believe that all officials must be impossibly 100% perfect at all times in all they do, the officials did fine, as ever there were decisions you can say you disagree with or things you think they missed but they are human and so are you, the fact you're on a forum doesn't mean you're right and the ref was wrong. It is great to discuss and analyse but unhealthy and a bit weird to obsess. A lot on here are waaaaaaay on the wrong side of that line.

Firstly, I agree with everything you say. But last night we were lucky in that the season opener produced the goods, given that the prospect of that happening had been jeopardised by Widnes being reduced to 12 thanks to a fairly soft sending off. I think everyone understand that refs are human but in the eyes of many there are too many marginal decisions being turned into game-changers by over-zealous officials. We all see - regularly - players being shown leniency for fouls on a par with Ah Van's.

Re: Don't like threads purely about referees but... : Fri Feb 06, 2015 1:46 pm  

Now I watched the game as a neutral, entirely no interest in who won at all - though I expected Wigan to take 2 points

From the outset they looked the better team but it soon became apparent that the two teams were not being referred the same way, it's more Wigans lack of finishing that sunk them than Widnes determination - though that was admirable

Was Ah Van a red card? Moot point, but if it was why wasn't Farrel red carded for a high late hit on the kicker?

J Tomkins deserves a couple of matches for simply attacking a player from behind when nothing was actually happening

Yes its a tough job being a ref, yes they make mistakes

But at least treat both teams the same

Re: Don't like threads purely about referees but... : Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:10 pm  

Barnabus wrote:

What other sports broadcasts have to bring in an ex-ref just to stop the commentary team flying off on one incorrectly after a decision?

Quite. Cummins' presence is just as annoying as the commentary team's hysteria though, so I'm not sure he "has to" be there.

As was said on twitter last night, Eddie and Stevo need to call the game and leave the rest to the others. Get rid of Cummins, stick Clarkey in a corner and we're good to go.

Re: Don't like threads purely about referees but... : Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:24 pm  

Chris28 wrote:

Quite. Cummins' presence is just as annoying as the commentary team's hysteria though, so I'm not sure he "has to" be there.

As was said on twitter last night, Eddie and Stevo need to call the game and leave the rest to the others. Get rid of Cummins, stick Clarkey in a corner and we're good to go.

Agree. The thing is, I don't think Eddie & Stevo are capable of doing changing what they do.

Did I hear Terry O'Connor last night too?

So they had 5 blokes in the studio. Wells and Carney doing the analysis, and then the touchline reporter too chiming in. Fing hell.

Re: Don't like threads purely about referees but... : Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:35 pm  

Thank god the season has started again.i was starting to lose the will to live when visiting the VT in recent weeks.9 pages on the ref after one game,impressive start guys!

[Pemps]

Re: Don't like threads purely about referees but... : Fri Feb 06, 2015 2:43 pm  

Code13 wrote:

J Tomkins deserves a couple of matches for simply attacking a player from behind when nothing was actually happening

it was a ridiculous reaction but let's not make it out to be something it wasn't. He hit him front on.

One of the best tackles of the night after the Sutton hit on Brown.

Re: Don't like threads purely about referees but... : Fri Feb 06, 2015 3:06 pm  

Yeh, great hit on a guy who was stood remonstrating about a cheap shot on a teammate and who wasn't even looking..