Re: Lance Hohaia retires : Sat May 02, 2015 5:25 pm  

goobervision wrote: So in your eyes LH did nothing? I'm pretty sure that he committed an assault and from there retaliation falls towards self defense. To put it simply, elbow me in the head and I won't get a slap on the wrist from the law for retaliation. That said, talk of the police is nonsense. Its pretty clear that you and your mate can walk into someones home, attack them, be caught on camera and not only do the press barely care but neither do the club, governing body or fans. I really struggle with the fact that Flower is lambasted for retaliation in a match. Hardacre and friend get very little for going into someone's home and assaulting them!!! Where did I say he did nothing? I said that LH shoved his forearm (NOT ELBOW) toward Flower, that was in reaction to Flower shoving him further downfield, or are you saying that Flower didn't actually make contact with LH in the first instance in which case there is little point going on with the discussion if you can't accept that Flower was the instigator from the off. The talk of the police is not a nonsense, and in the case of someone coming into your home and attacking you and nobody caring, what a load of twaddle, are you for real or just have a screw loose? The Hardaker case is completely different, it didn't leave someone unconscious on the floor whom was then punched again or where you there and saw everything? In the BF case it's completely clear what happened, you just can't accept those FACTS. What the press have to do with anything I don't know, that's got nothing to do with what the police do if they are told of an attack, ABH or GBH, it is their duty to investigate. In this case despite it being on the rugby field there is a clear case for ABH. Check out for yourself and you'll see plenty of cases where players have actually being given prison sentences for similar. Here are a few I found in 20 seconds http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Keynsham-R ... story.html http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/1 ... ter_match/ Suspended sentence- http://www.westerntelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... jail_term/ As I said, it would be the second punch on an already unconscious person that would be enough to get a clear ABH and by the letter of the law it is GBH. The first punch might by some be considered self defence but it just isn't, the two shoves previous offset each other, the haymaker thrown by flower that did the damage by knocking LH unconscious is not by any stretch of the imagination self defence, the second punch is beyond belief. But as I said, it's all irrelevant, LH didn't want anything doing about it, that's his shout, the police if they had had any balls should have done him anyway. It would have sent a clear message that assault on the rugby field is just not acceptable just because you feel the need to dish out dis-proportionate revenge..Lee Radford's attack on a prone Bailey a couple of years ago is another prime example of a cowardly attack. HTH

goobervision wrote: So in your eyes LH did nothing? I'm pretty sure that he committed an assault and from there retaliation falls towards self defense. To put it simply, elbow me in the head and I won't get a slap on the wrist from the law for retaliation. That said, talk of the police is nonsense. Its pretty clear that you and your mate can walk into someones home, attack them, be caught on camera and not only do the press barely care but neither do the club, governing body or fans. I really struggle with the fact that Flower is lambasted for retaliation in a match. Hardacre and friend get very little for going into someone's home and assaulting them!!! Where did I say he did nothing? I said that LH shoved his forearm (NOT ELBOW) toward Flower, that was in reaction to Flower shoving him further downfield, or are you saying that Flower didn't actually make contact with LH in the first instance in which case there is little point going on with the discussion if you can't accept that Flower was the instigator from the off. The talk of the police is not a nonsense, and in the case of someone coming into your home and attacking you and nobody caring, what a load of twaddle, are you for real or just have a screw loose? The Hardaker case is completely different, it didn't leave someone unconscious on the floor whom was then punched again or where you there and saw everything? In the BF case it's completely clear what happened, you just can't accept those FACTS. What the press have to do with anything I don't know, that's got nothing to do with what the police do if they are told of an attack, ABH or GBH, it is their duty to investigate. In this case despite it being on the rugby field there is a clear case for ABH. Check out for yourself and you'll see plenty of cases where players have actually being given prison sentences for similar. Here are a few I found in 20 seconds http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Keynsham-R ... story.html http://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/1 ... ter_match/ Suspended sentence- http://www.westerntelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... jail_term/ As I said, it would be the second punch on an already unconscious person that would be enough to get a clear ABH and by the letter of the law it is GBH. The first punch might by some be considered self defence but it just isn't, the two shoves previous offset each other, the haymaker thrown by flower that did the damage by knocking LH unconscious is not by any stretch of the imagination self defence, the second punch is beyond belief. But as I said, it's all irrelevant, LH didn't want anything doing about it, that's his shout, the police if they had had any balls should have done him anyway. It would have sent a clear message that assault on the rugby field is just not acceptable just because you feel the need to dish out dis-proportionate revenge..Lee Radford's attack on a prone Bailey a couple of years ago is another prime example of a cowardly attack. HTH

Re: Lance Hohaia retires : Sat May 02, 2015 5:29 pm  

goobervision wrote:

I really don't, I'm not obsessing over it unlike some. Odd how, at the time there were plenty of Saint's fans saying that Flower pushed Lance to excuse the run and elbow and now it's a side shot to the head which clearly means it was OK to make the run and attack to the head.

As for this ending of "we all hope Lance is OK", I don't think anyone has any other thought but whenever I see it to close the position of the person saying it, it smacks of "think of the children" attitudes. I do hope that the St Helen's Star retract their "news" which had no basis for blaming Flower, a player who may suffer as a result of the constant hounding by Saint's fans...

Hardacre however... where's the mock outrage there? Is it because there's no opposing team, just a member of the public in their own home?

Lol. Your attempts to absolve Flower of the blame and play the victim card are utterly laughable.

First it was it wasn't that bad an incident, you've apparently seen lots o far worse incidents. Then it was blaming Hohaia for instigating it. Then it was trying to paint Flower as somehow victimised by the Saints fans. Then it was trying to divert the discussion away from poor old Ben Flower to Hardaker.

It's pathetic. Flower committed a spectacularly ugly, vicious and dangerous act. He and he alone is wholly responsible for it and any repurcussions that come from it. Anything else is complete and utter guff.

Re: Lance Hohaia retires : Sat May 02, 2015 5:58 pm  

Suzy Banyon wrote:

The irony is blowing my mind.

If you re-read my post, you will not I DO NOT state this is the cause, and APPEARS to be a contributory factor, which I doubt most sensible observers would deny.

I do not know anything beyond what is in the public domain about Hohaia specifically. But having worked with victims of severe head injuries for the last 15 years of my life, I would like to think I have a better idea that most on here about the impact a blow to the head can have. And I would like to believe that I know how the high levels of care and support are, plus the vast amount of time that which is dedicated to such injuries.

And for that reason I believe it is unwise for people who know little about this matter to spread idle conjecture about how head injuries/traumas are and should be treated.

Re: Lance Hohaia retires : Sat May 02, 2015 6:55 pm  

Word on the street is that Hohaia has sought legal advice and that one look at that incident in the GF by a judge in the high court will see him walk away with a tidy sum

Re: Lance Hohaia retires : Sat May 02, 2015 6:57 pm  

I can't believe that after 6 months and thousands of replays, the wigan fans still claim LH started it all.

Regards

King James

Re: Lance Hohaia retires : Sat May 02, 2015 7:44 pm  

I'm not here defending anyone, but surely how can hohaia prove his condition is flowers fault, hasn't he trained all preseason, played games this year? How can he prove that a stray knee, hip, elbow, shoulder etc in contact training or the matches he's played hasn't caused his condition, unless he's got every second of training footage and match footage on camera to prove he's not had on further knock to his head surely flowers legal team could take apart his claims, I'm no legal expert by the way just using a bit of logic here.

Re: Lance Hohaia retires : Sat May 02, 2015 8:04 pm  

Him wrote:

Lol. Your attempts to absolve Flower of the blame and play the victim card are utterly laughable.

First it was it wasn't that bad an incident, you've apparently seen lots o far worse incidents. Then it was blaming Hohaia for instigating it. Then it was trying to paint Flower as somehow victimised by the Saints fans. Then it was trying to divert the discussion away from poor old Ben Flower to Hardaker.

It's pathetic. Flower committed a spectacularly ugly, vicious and dangerous act. He and he alone is wholly responsible for it and any repurcussions that come from it. Anything else is complete and utter guff.

Very well said, that should now be the last of Goobervision's guff.

Re: Lance Hohaia retires : Sat May 02, 2015 8:45 pm  

Lebron James wrote:

I can't believe that after 6 months and thousands of replays, the wigan fans still claim LH started it all.

Regards

King James

I can't believe that after thousands of replays, so many people choose to ignore Hohaia deliberately moving into Flower's path to block his kick chase. Contrary to the strange belief that Flower knocked him down for no reason, Hohaia knew exactly what he was doing and took exception when he came off second best. Of course he emerged as the victim, but he's not entirely blameless in the instigation and escalation of events. As someone else mentioned, he's been a niggler all his career and that run block was pretty typical.

Of course, by acknowledging that, many people immediately wail that you're trying to blame Hohaia, vindicate Flower and justify his actions. I'm not. Flower took it way too far, was correctly found guilty of a hugely serious offence and has paid his dues. Nothing can excuse that second punch.

To sum up the entire incident using an infamous tinternet meme: "well, that escalated quickly".

The Chin's Back wrote:

Word on the street is that Hohaia has sought legal advice and that one look at that incident in the GF by a judge in the high court will see him walk away with a tidy sum

I'd be more surprised if he hasn't sought legal advice.

Fortunately, unlike the RLFans lynch mob, a high court judge would take a little more than 'one look', and would seek advice from a number of experts. I find it hard to believe that a career involving of many thousands of brain-jarring impacts - and most likely many concussions of varying degrees - would not be taken into account.

Re: Lance Hohaia retires : Sun May 03, 2015 7:08 pm  

The Chin's Back wrote:

Word on the street is that Hohaia has sought legal advice and that one look at that incident in the GF by a judge in the high court will see him walk away with a tidy sum

A tidy sum from Saints?

Letting him start 8 games despite suffering from concussion like symptoms is negligent.

Re: Lance Hohaia retires : Sun May 03, 2015 7:15 pm  

Judder Man wrote:

Very well said, that should now be the last of Goobervision's guff.

Let's hope so but there'll no doubt be another one along in a minute.