Re: Catalan Dragons v Widnes Vikings : Sun Sep 24, 2017 12:53 pm  

UllFC wrote:

Of course Catalan offer SL more in terms of profile, TV contracts, sponsorship and a access to a bigger player pool than Leigh, but that shouldn't be a reason to keep them in SL by default.

quite simply they recruited the wrong coach in Fresseynous, have bought some terrible players while allowing the better French talent to go elsewhere in SL and seem to have no team spirit at all. It's been a shocking mis-management from where they were under Trent Robinson where teams used to fear going to France and they always had an advantage in the transfer market due to the lifestyle on offer in the South of France.

In some ways relegation could help them, they would be allowed to release all the deadwood and start afresh. As much as it pains me to say it HullKR are in a stronger position now post-relegation than they were 12 months ago.

Rugby League needs to get to a place where relegation to the Championship isn't seen as a death sentence, it is seen as a blow but a place to re-build and come back stronger.

All of this is spot on. For the game to grow we need a strong second tier, super league shouldn't be the be all and end all. Hopefully sky will show championship games more regularly next season with Toronto, Catalans, London and Toulouse all likely to be challenging for the top 4.

Re: Catalan Dragons v Widnes Vikings : Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:02 pm  

Dan155 wrote:

"How did you go bankrupt?" Bill asked.
"Two ways," Mike said. "Gradually and then suddenly."

Lost London, lost Bradford, lose Catalans...

In twenty years there won't be a professional Rugby League competition in England and the remaining people who watch the game will blame it on a conspiracy by outsiders.

Losing London and Bradford has done f**k all. The monumental RFL Stobart cock up, now that has been costly.

Also filling the top British comp with foreign teams isn't going to get more people in THIS country to watch the sport.

Re: Catalan Dragons v Widnes Vikings : Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:34 pm  

Willzay wrote:

Losing London and Bradford has done f**k all. The monumental RFL Stobart cock up, now that has been costly.

Also filling the top British comp with foreign teams isn't going to get more people in THIS country to watch the sport.

Spot on Willzay.

Re: Catalan Dragons v Widnes Vikings : Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:58 pm  

Dan155 wrote:

"How did you go bankrupt?" Bill asked.
"Two ways," Mike said. "Gradually and then suddenly."

Lost London, lost Bradford, lose Catalans...

In twenty years there won't be a professional Rugby League competition in England and the remaining people who watch the game will blame it on a conspiracy by outsiders.

They aren't lost though are they, they are just playing in a lower division, and all three of them are capable of earning their place back in coming years if they are managed properly. Relegation doesn't have to be a death sentence.

I don't want Catalans to go down particularly, but I aren't that bothered if they do. It would be a real shame and a severe blow to the French game if they went to the wall, or ended up stuck as a semi pro side forever more, but relegation might be a good thing if it allows they to clear the decks and have a rethink about what kind of club they want to be. I don't really agree with the sponsorship argument, if it was London then I get it, but Perpignan isn't exactly an economical powerhouse is it? Why would a potential sponsor care anymore about a team being there than they would about a team in Lancashire?

Re: Catalan Dragons v Widnes Vikings : Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:03 pm  

Thanks to theredviking for at least an attempt at some sort of debate, rather than Cokey's infantile cheerleading of posts he likes and school-yard insults.

This bit, I agree with.

Widnes and Leigh are hot beds of RL talent in this country. Widnes run an academy graded as Outstanding by the RFL and Leigh have plans to run one once they are safe in SL. Those academies will produce England internationals.

Nobody wants to see any talent flounder or go undiscovered. I'll save comment on the "Leigh have plans" part - if there is one thing RL clubs are good it, it's "having plans".

theredviking wrote:

How will RL in this country grow? Success of the international game which means strong England international players.

This I don't quite agree with. We have had high profile, successful international players, and we're still falling behind other sports. The Burgess brothers, particularly the return of Sam, was supposed to increase our international profile, as was Sam Tomkins. The problem that the wider public really don't lknow / care and even if they do, we can't keep our best players in this league.

Walker and Brand at Widnes are two players with massive international potential.

That may be the case, but with international potential comes the potential to earn big money, and that means leaving Super League unless something dramatically changes. We have a serious problem in that we have too few clubs who can pay the market rate for top talent - British or Antipodean.

Some times people need to see the bigger picture rather than think what a great away day the South of France is.

Au contrare. We are looking at the bigger picture. The bigger picture is wanting to attract new audiences, bigger audiences, new sponsors, bigger sponsors and more broadcasters. To me, and to most others it seems, that is better achieved with a strong Catalans team than a Leigh team in Super League.

Reaching the same audiences gets this sport nowhere. The sport is already stagnating and as much as the chippy anti-expansionists like Cokey and Vastman decry it, it needs to reach new audiences if it is to stop 'withering on the vine'.

I know why people like that object to the expansion clubs - they see the commercial success of this sport as a threat that their respective clubs can't keep up with and so they want to see the sport held back, continuing to wither, so that they can maintain this idea that they're competing, and then blame Red Hall for the sport's ills. I think that's wrong - we shouldn't let the tale wag the dog simply to keep 5,000 people in a town near Wigan happy.

We need more money in this sport. I think that money is more likely to be found in France and Toronto than it is in Leigh or Wakefield.

Re: Catalan Dragons v Widnes Vikings : Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:14 pm  

bramleyrhino wrote:

Thanks to theredviking for at least an attempt at some sort of debate, rather than Cokey's infantile cheerleading of posts he likes and school-yard insults.

This bit, I agree with.

Nobody wants to see any talent flounder or go undiscovered. I'll save comment on the "Leigh have plans" part - if there is one thing RL clubs are good it, it's "having plans".

This I don't quite agree with. We have had high profile, successful international players, and we're still falling behind other sports. The Burgess brothers, particularly the return of Sam, was supposed to increase our international profile, as was Sam Tomkins. The problem that the wider public really don't lknow / care and even if they do, we can't keep our best players in this league.

That may be the case, but with international potential comes the potential to earn big money, and that means leaving Super League unless something dramatically changes. We have a serious problem in that we have too few clubs who can pay the market rate for top talent - British or Antipodean.

Au contrare. We are looking at the bigger picture. The bigger picture is wanting to attract new audiences, bigger audiences, new sponsors, bigger sponsors and more broadcasters. To me, and to most others it seems, that is better achieved with a strong Catalans team than a Leigh team in Super League.

Reaching the same audiences gets this sport nowhere. The sport is already stagnating and as much as the chippy anti-expansionists like Cokey and Vastman decry it, it needs to reach new audiences if it is to stop 'withering on the vine'.

I know why people like that object to the expansion clubs - they see the commercial success of this sport as a threat that their respective clubs can't keep up with and so they want to see the sport held back, continuing to wither, so that they can maintain this idea that they're competing, and then blame Red Hall for the sport's ills. I think that's wrong - we shouldn't let the tale wag the dog simply to keep 5,000 people in a town near Wigan happy.

We need more money in this sport. I think that money is more likely to be found in France and Toronto than it is in Leigh or Wakefield.

Like Iv'e already said,you hate Leigh and know F@@@ all about Leigh,so disappear you silly little juvenile.

Re: Catalan Dragons v Widnes Vikings : Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:19 pm  

Cokey wrote:

Like Iv'e already said,you hate Leigh and know F@@@ all about Leigh,so disappear you silly little juvenile.

I've asked you before, but point out where I'm wrong. How do I know "#### all"? What am I missing that you can elighten me on? And what evidence do you have that I "hate" Leigh?

Given that you've added very little to this discussion apart from cheerleading and insults, I'd say I'm far from the one who knows "#### all".

Re: Catalan Dragons v Widnes Vikings : Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:20 pm  

Cokey wrote:

Like Iv'e already said,you hate Leigh and know F@@@ all about Leigh,so disappear you silly little juvenile.

It would be interesting to get a general idea which teams fans are generally more open to expansion, and vice versa....

Re: Catalan Dragons v Widnes Vikings : Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:29 pm  

supersuperfc wrote:

It would be interesting to get a general idea which teams fans are generally more open to expansion, and vice versa....

Depends where. Personally I'd rather see more southern teams in SL before Toronto and any other translantic experiement.

Re: Catalan Dragons v Widnes Vikings : Sun Sep 24, 2017 3:31 pm  

bramleyrhino wrote:

I've asked you before, but point out where I'm wrong. How do I know "#### all"? What am I missing that you can elighten me on? And what evidence do you have that I "hate" Leigh?

Given that you've added very little to this discussion apart from cheerleading and insults, I'd say I'm far from the one who knows "#### all".

Look, when i came on the forum today you had enough replies from other users as to why Cats should go down - READ THEM. If you don't agree, then that's up to you. I don't have to explain anything to you about my club, You have decided yourself that you don't want Leigh before Cats in SL........YOUR OPINION ONLY. What do you really know about the MIGHTY LEIGH CENTURIONS? I think nothing. That's why i said, You Know F@@@ all. Get it?