Re: Potential English Centres : Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:26 pm  

G1 wrote:

Exactly. People are bandying a few names around now but during the course of the season none of them have played as well as Smith. As you and a couple of other honest posters have said he earned his place on form.

Your point is a fair one. Its all very well bad mouthing Smith, but if he's the best we've got, then we have to work with it.

From my team's point of view (Sts), with gidley filling one centre, the other has been filled by both Eastmond and Gilmour, but before his injury, young Wheeler played a good run of games there and was quite impressive (when our season was going well). He's a stand off by trade but looked a very composed and capable centre. There's young Chris Dean who is a solid but unspectacular player who'll probably carve out a decent SL career now that the quota's tightening. Tyrer who's gone to Salford - he's struggled, but is still only 20 and could always find the try line. I have a felling he'll do ok in the long run, but England might be a long shot.

From England's point of view, I have to say I was very impressed by Bridge when I saw him play centre this year fro Wire. His play looked like that of a classic centre, he hit the gap outside his man well, and has an excellent step back. I never saw him troubled in defence and his a fair lump so would be ok from that point of view. For me - a better choice than Smith.

Those who mention Atkins? Well, i've been shocked at how bad his positional defence can be in the centre channel when I've seen him over the years. He's definately not the answer to plugging the defensive gaps.

Huddersfields youngsters confuse me - Lawrence and Cudjoe. They're always bigged up and look good when you see them, but the coach often seem to leave them out for somewhat more pedestrian looking foreigners (thinking about it, obviously Cudjoe's got Hodgeson keeping him out of his favoured position). Perhaps the giants fans could tell me exactly how good these guys are.

There does seem to be more youngsters of note coming through in the backs. Welham at KR looks ok and Cas have got some decent backs in Shenton/Dixon/Owen; Ratchford at Salford, Tomkins and Ainscough at Wigan etc etc. It all goes back to taking the talent and turning it into a really top class player, rather than a pretty good one - unless we're just hoping for 7 paul newloves to come along at the same time (and even then we'd be loved for away internationals ).

: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:27 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

He would have been too busy thrashing the players at fault to find time to criticise me for deciding not to leave the best player in the world half a pitch to run around in.

I'd be inclined to say rather a 15 yard gap on my inside with cover than a 30 yard gap on my outside without, with the latter gap housing the most dangerous player on the planet.

At the end of the day, the defensive pattern was daft, but to suggest Smith was somehow forced to abandon for mid-field for the bulk of the first half is equally daft. He was exerting no control whatsoever over what was happening on his side of the pitch. Probably because he's a blo*ody full back!!

You have to close the inside gaps, and if you're going to leave space, leave it on the outside. At least that way you can take away most of the support players and leave the attack only one way to go.

Seems an English RL thing to think good defence is staying out wide "on your man" and waving the opposition through the middle

: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:34 pm  

Richie wrote:

Seems an English RL thing to think good defence is staying out wide "on your man" and waving the opposition through the middle

Seems like a Richie thing to not realise that I am not advocating a centre standing on top of Inglis regardless of circumstance, I am simply advocating him being bright enough to realise that the opposition are ACTIVELY TRYING TO TEMPT HIM INFIELD TO LEAVE SPACE FOR INGLIS and be brave enough to resist the temptation to leave the sort of gaps the Aussies enjoyed strolling around in in the first half.

: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:37 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

Seems like a Richie thing to not realise that I am not advocating a centre standing on top of Inglis regardless of circumstance, I am simply advocating him being bright enough to realise that the opposition are ACTIVELY TRYING TO TEMPT HIM INFIELD TO LEAVE SPACE FOR INGLIS and be brave enough to resist the temptation to leave the sort of gaps the Aussies enjoyed strolling around in in the first half.

What you have to do as a defender is look where your colleague inside (inside being nearer the ball) is, and who he is covering. You then put yourself in position to cover the next man out. If you don't, if you stay wider, the opposition have a very easy break which will have support on either side.
Is that how you were suggesting Smith should have positioned himself?

: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:37 pm  

G1 wrote:

He's not a Rovers player is he? Who did your team provide for Tony Smith's delictation?

Regardless, did Tony Clubb really stand out during the course of the season as being head and shoulders above the centres in the squad?

He was in the squad but (we think) picked up an injury.
He stood out for some pretty good defence, he lacks a bit going forward but he wouldn’t have waved them through like Smithy did. His problem is staying fit, he’s big enough and good enough.

: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:41 pm  

Richie wrote:

Is that how you were suggesting Smith should have positioned himself?

I am suggesting Smith's positional play was poor and led to problems.

You are suggesting it wasn't poor and that he was just doing what he had to do.

Not much point arguing over such polarised opinions, we all have our views on what went wrong.

: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:46 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

I am suggesting Smith's positional play was poor and led to problems.

You are suggesting it wasn't poor and that he was just doing what he had to do.

Not much point arguing over such polarised opinions, we all have our views on what went wrong.

Check my post of 16:16

What I have eversohelpfully done, is also explain why it was so, and why it was so for several players.
Which I thought was a better explanation than just claiming him to be a fullback.

: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:46 pm  

I was actually just trying to find out what Code13 thought was the right position for a centre in defence.

: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:08 pm  

You know that HUUUUUUUUUUUUGE gap Inglis kept running through...there.

Even if he was laying down in the hope of tripping Inglis up he would have been more use.

: Tue Nov 03, 2009 6:27 pm  

Code13 wrote:

You know that HUUUUUUUUUUUUGE gap Inglis kept running through...there.

Even if he was laying down in the hope of tripping Inglis up he would have been more use.

You prefer to see opponents break through the middle and score under the posts then? Why?