: Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:55 pm  

Code13 wrote:

:lol:

No he should actually have been in his OWN position, the rest of the team's defence made the aussies go wide, when the did they found an enourmous gap where Smith should have been

Something he was guilty of it the World Cup too...

Presumably you think his OWN position was man marking his opposite number? Watch the game back - if he had stood face to face with Inglis there would have been a twenty yard gap on his inside shoulder.

England's defensive strategy was to push the Australians onto one side of the field then condense in, expecting the Aussies to try and batter their way through the middle.

Obviously nobody had pointed out the speed and accuracy with which Lockyer and Thurston can pass a ball from right to left. The ball moves faster than the man, particular if you fix the inside defenders with decoy runners. All the Australians had to do was keep their width on the left hand side and use ball movement to outflank England's defence.

: Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:56 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

So he should have said "f*ck where the rest of the team inside me are standing, I'm going to stay right out here where Greg Inglis is. If that leaves a gap you could slide a bus through sideways on my inside shoulder, that's not my problem"?

He left a gap the size of a bus for Inglis to run through anyway so what's your point? I'd rather he left a gap for Josh Hannant to be honest. Fact is he was reading plays badly, not being some mid-pitch saviour for the forwards as seems to be your interpretation.

He was out of position. Constantly, for whatever reason. I'm amazed that doesn't seem clear to you.

: Tue Nov 03, 2009 3:59 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

He left a gap the size of a bus for Inglis to run through anyway so what's your point? I'd rather he left a gap for Josh Hannant to be honest. Fact is he was reading plays badly, not being some mid-pitch saviour for the forwards as seems to be your interpretation.

He was out of position. Constantly, for whatever reason. I'm amazed that doesn't seem clear to you.

Constantly? Throughout?
Australia should have scored every single play the ball

: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:00 pm  

Richie wrote:

Constantly? Throughout?
Australia should have scored every single play the ball

They pretty much did every time they went down our right with the ball. Sometimes when we had the ball too.

But as I don't like arguments, I will concede that Lee Smith's positioning was top drawer the first half on Saturday and I was astounded to see him moved to the wing.

: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:04 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

He left a gap the size of a bus for Inglis to run through anyway so what's your point? I'd rather he left a gap for Josh Hannant to be honest. Fact is he was reading plays badly, not being some mid-pitch saviour for the forwards as seems to be your interpretation.

He was out of position. Constantly, for whatever reason. I'm amazed that doesn't seem clear to you.

I'll give you your due, you got one thing right. He was pretty much in the middle of the pitch when Australia played the ball near their right hand touchline.

Now would you like to give some thought - be brave, I know it will hurt - as to why he might have been defending that centrally? Start by looking at the positioning of the players on his left and go from there.

: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:04 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

They pretty much did every time they went down our right with the ball. Sometimes when we had the ball too.

But as I don't like arguments, I will concede that Lee Smith's positioning was top drawer the first half on Saturday and I was astounded to see him moved to the wing.

So not throughout and not constantly now then?

As to your second para, you're the first one to suggest that. Not sure why you would, but there you go.

: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:07 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

Now would you like to give some thought - be brave, I know it will hurt - as to why he might have been defending that centrally?

Probably for the same sorts of reasons he came out of line at the wrong times on occassion. He was reading plays badly along with many of his team mates. As I would expect for a fullback playing centre against such a good team with a defensively weak 6 beside him.

How about I ask you a question - is it your assertion that Lee Smith was completely free from blame defensively throughout the first half?

You appear to be suggesting he has no responsibility for marshalling the defence on that side and that everything is dictated by people to his left. I played right centre, and I wouldn't have got away with that excuse with any coaches I played under.

: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:15 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

How about I ask you a question - is it your assertion that Lee Smith was completely free from blame defensively throughout the first half?

You appear to be suggesting he has no responsibility for marshalling the defence on that side and that everything is dictated by people to his left. I played right centre, and I wouldn't have got away with that excuse with any coaches I played under.

Nope, that's an interpretation you've put on my posts, probably based as much on who I support as their content.

Have a look at how England defended when Australia had the ball on their right hand side of the field in that first 40 minutes. Have a look at how condensed the defensive line was, where all the players were lining up. You think condensing the defensive line that much was a unilateral decision taken by the players on the field.

If you had disregarded the team's defensive pattern and left a 15 yard gap on your inside, what do you think your coach would have said to you?

: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:16 pm  

FearTheVee wrote:

How about I ask you a question - is it your assertion that Lee Smith was completely free from blame defensively throughout the first half?

Peacock, Sinfield, Smith, Mcguire and Briscoe all made clear errors in their defensive positioning in the first half. I don't think any sensible poster has suggested otherwise.

: Tue Nov 03, 2009 4:22 pm  

Andy Gilder wrote:

If you had disregarded the team's defensive pattern and left a 15 yard gap on your inside, what do you think your coach would have said to you?

He would have been too busy thrashing the players at fault to find time to criticise me for deciding not to leave the best player in the world half a pitch to run around in.

I'd be inclined to say rather a 15 yard gap on my inside left by others than a 30 yard gap on my outside left by me, with the latter gap housing the most dangerous player on the planet.

At the end of the day, the defensive pattern was daft, but to suggest Smith was somehow forced to abandon for mid-field for the bulk of the first half is equally daft. He was exerting no control whatsoever over what was happening on his side of the pitch. Probably because he's a blo*ody full back!!