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 Post subject: Re: 2021 World Cup
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:04 am 
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HXSparky wrote:It's a World Cup. Tonga played Italy at the Shay in front of a sell-out crowd (around 10,000 or so at the time) in 2013, so lot's of folk will watch "meaningless" games if it's marketed correctly.

Read that again. Halifax, the Shay, and two decent but not top RL teams coming to town. Good marketing and result is a full stadium (I know because I couldn't go to the game originally, but then went for tickets and bought literally the last 2 available).

Double that attendance needed to achieve the reduced/ amended 750,000 target for RWC 20101....Cook Islands v USA will need 20k based on England averaging 50k all the way through to the final......they just got 22k average for 3 games v #2 ranked NZ.
Marketing games is all well and good....... But nothing less than a 20k capacity is to be considered this time.....profit is achieved through stadiums/towns bidding to host....... Growth is achieved by kids playing/watching the game... Which do the RFL want?






JESUS WEPT :WALL: HOW MANY TIMES?????
£20 a ticket and £15 on beer and merchandise.....so an away fan is worth £35. At best, 1,000 is the average away support split across 11 rounds and I am being really generous here, so Toronto, replacing say Wakefield will cost a SL club £35,000.
The minimum turnover of a SL club is £4,000,000 so Toronto instead of Widnes is worth less than 1% of a SL clubs turnover.

There are many valid reasons for and against expansion into America, but "AWAY FANS" isn't one of them. :BEAT:

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 World Cup
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:51 am 
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Let's be frank, much of the "marketing" around the 2013 World Cup was based around discount codes and half-price tickets.

I was at that game in Halifax, but would I have paid full price to watch it? Probably not. I also wouldn't have paid full price to watch England walk all over Ireland in Huddersfield.

Don't get me wrong, discounting has a place in marketing, but it also comes with side-effects.






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 Post subject: Re: 2021 World Cup
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:23 pm 
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Looking at current rankings the seeded groups could look like this. Compare these fixtures to the group games we had in 2017, I don’t know how anyone can be in favour of this format, it doesn’t work for Rugby League, we don’t have enough strong Nations.

1 Australia
5 Fiji
9 Lebanon
13 Italy

2 New Zealand
6 Samoa
10 PNG
14 USA

3 England
7 Scotland
11 Ireland
15 Jamaica

4 Tonga
8 France
12 Wales
16 Canada

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 World Cup
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:54 pm 
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Sir Kevin Sinfield wrote:Looking at current rankings the seeded groups could look like this. Compare these fixtures to the group games we had in 2017, I don’t know how anyone can be in favour of this format, it doesn’t work for Rugby League, we don’t have enough strong Nations.

1 Australia
5 Fiji
9 Lebanon
13 Italy

2 New Zealand
6 Samoa
10 PNG
14 USA

3 England
7 Scotland
11 Ireland
15 Jamaica

4 Tonga
8 France
12 Wales
16 Canada


Likely delivering
Australia v ireland/Scotland
New Zealand v Fiji
England v France Elland Road 38k
Tonga V Samoa

Delivering
Australia v NZ
England v Tonga at Olympic stadium 66k

ANZAC v England at Wembley 90k

Leaving 24 group games, 3 quarters and a semi to deliver 556,000 fans just under 20k a pop.....
.... Anyone here see Wales v Canada or Ireland v Scotland getting half that?






JESUS WEPT :WALL: HOW MANY TIMES?????
£20 a ticket and £15 on beer and merchandise.....so an away fan is worth £35. At best, 1,000 is the average away support split across 11 rounds and I am being really generous here, so Toronto, replacing say Wakefield will cost a SL club £35,000.
The minimum turnover of a SL club is £4,000,000 so Toronto instead of Widnes is worth less than 1% of a SL clubs turnover.

There are many valid reasons for and against expansion into America, but "AWAY FANS" isn't one of them. :BEAT:

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 World Cup
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 10:51 pm 
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Sir Kevin Sinfield wrote:Looking at current rankings the seeded groups could look like this. Compare these fixtures to the group games we had in 2017, I don’t know how anyone can be in favour of this format, it doesn’t work for Rugby League, we don’t have enough strong Nations.

1 Australia
5 Fiji
9 Lebanon
13 Italy

2 New Zealand
6 Samoa
10 PNG
14 USA

3 England
7 Scotland
11 Ireland
15 Jamaica

4 Tonga
8 France
12 Wales
16 Canada


Would have been better as two strong groups of 4, top 2 go through.

England
New Zealand
Fiji
Scotland

Australia
Tonga
Samoa
France

Two weak groups of 4, top teams go through, 2nd place teams playoff again the 3rd place teams from the strong groups.

PNG
Wales
Jamaica
Canada

Lebanon
Ireland
USA
Italy

Downside is the playoffs take another round, and attendance may not be high as teams wont be known til just before.

But from a playing point of view you get closer group games and I reckon an inform group C and D team could give a 3rd place group A and B team a game in a one off playoff. Ireland or Italy may have given a disapointing Samoa a game in the last world cup for example.

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 World Cup
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 11:35 pm 
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UllFC wrote:Would have been better as two strong groups of 4, top 2 go through.

Really?
FIFA World cup don't expect Egypt, Australia. Morocco, Costa Rica, Iceland etc to reach any heights or even score a goal in their groups but guess what, they still run a straight forward group stage based on rankings and it doesn't stop people tuning in or turning up.

Staking groups doesn't attract interest....just ridicule. RLWC is a 3 side tournament....there were more Kiwis than Fijians or Tongans in last years Semi-finals yet NZ weren't involved........
4 groups, top 2 in each go to QF's, best team wins 6 games to win the trophy.......works in all other "global" sports!






JESUS WEPT :WALL: HOW MANY TIMES?????
£20 a ticket and £15 on beer and merchandise.....so an away fan is worth £35. At best, 1,000 is the average away support split across 11 rounds and I am being really generous here, so Toronto, replacing say Wakefield will cost a SL club £35,000.
The minimum turnover of a SL club is £4,000,000 so Toronto instead of Widnes is worth less than 1% of a SL clubs turnover.

There are many valid reasons for and against expansion into America, but "AWAY FANS" isn't one of them. :BEAT:

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 World Cup
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:20 am 
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The Four Nations is better than the World Cup, let's be honest here. The Ashes was the best of the lot, but that was when the seasons didn't run concurrently, so the teams could tour during the home country's league season and play against the clubs. Sadly the tours will never be as good as that again. Either way the World Cup isn't very interesting at all.






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 Post subject: Re: 2021 World Cup
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:58 am 
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Dropkick Murphy wrote:The Four Nations is better than the World Cup, let's be honest here. The Ashes was the best of the lot, but that was when the seasons didn't run concurrently, so the teams could tour during the home country's league season and play against the clubs. Sadly the tours will never be as good as that again. Either way the World Cup isn't very interesting at all.

I don’t agree, I thought the 2017 and 2013 World Cups were brilliant from start the finish. The unusual group structure made these tournaments. The 2021 tournament won’t get exciting until the semi finals, what a shame.

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 World Cup
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:12 am 
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Jamaica and USA will compete at the weekend after they beat Canada and Chile respectively last night

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 World Cup
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:37 pm 
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Sir Kevin Sinfield wrote:I don’t agree, I thought the 2017 and 2013 World Cups were brilliant from start the finish. The unusual group structure made these tournaments. The 2021 tournament won’t get exciting until the semi finals, what a shame.
utter tosh.
2017 was awful and only redeemed by NZ B playing as Tonga..... Poor crowds, little media interest...... 2013 was only a success based on double headers and TICKETS as cheap as a fiver....neither was any better or worse for the format.






JESUS WEPT :WALL: HOW MANY TIMES?????
£20 a ticket and £15 on beer and merchandise.....so an away fan is worth £35. At best, 1,000 is the average away support split across 11 rounds and I am being really generous here, so Toronto, replacing say Wakefield will cost a SL club £35,000.
The minimum turnover of a SL club is £4,000,000 so Toronto instead of Widnes is worth less than 1% of a SL clubs turnover.

There are many valid reasons for and against expansion into America, but "AWAY FANS" isn't one of them. :BEAT:

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