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 Post subject: Re: 2021 World Cup
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 6:10 pm 
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Call Me God wrote:Really?
FIFA World cup don't expect Egypt, Australia. Morocco, Costa Rica, Iceland etc to reach any heights or even score a goal in their groups but guess what, they still run a straight forward group stage based on rankings and it doesn't stop people tuning in or turning up.

Staking groups doesn't attract interest....just ridicule. RLWC is a 3 side tournament....there were more Kiwis than Fijians or Tongans in last years Semi-finals yet NZ weren't involved........
4 groups, top 2 in each go to QF's, best team wins 6 games to win the trophy.......works in all other "global" sports!


The Football World Cup does indeed contain some duff teams, but they built their tournament into a worldwide TV specticle before expanding to incude these duff teams.

Also worth pointing out that World Champions Germany went out in the Group Stages, Argentina and Portugal containing the Worlds Two best players went out second round. Football can get away with the odd duff game in the groups because there are still teams capable of pulling off shocks.

RL has badly needed a 2nd tier of teams to step up for a long time, the likes of Fiji, France, PNG etc, if they got to a level where they could shock the big 3 on a good day we’d be in a much better position. Tonga got to that level in 2017, but yes they have done it by being an NZ Alternative or B-Team.

Union went for the approach of 4 ‘equal’ groups of 5 last time, with top 2 going through. But Union have far stronger and marketable nations, Group A for example contained England, Wales and Australia. They then do a far better job of marketing the other ties, 50k at Olympic Stadium for France - Romania for example, more than we get for England games.

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 World Cup
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:55 pm 
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Call Me God wrote:utter tosh.
2017 was awful and only redeemed by NZ B playing as Tonga..... Poor crowds, little media interest...... 2013 was only a success based on double headers and TICKETS as cheap as a fiver....neither was any better or worse for the format.

The 2000 World Cup in the UK had a similar format to 2021, it averaged 8514 and nearly bankrupt the sport.

In 2013 we averaged 16,374 in the UK, yes there were promo codes available, but this didn’t double all attendances.

In 2017 we averaged 13,646 without promo codes and with an Australian public reluctant to watch International Rugby League.

Why go back to a format similar to 2000, it was a disaster.

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 World Cup
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:36 pm 
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Sir Kevin Sinfield wrote:The 2000 World Cup in the UK had a similar format to 2021, it averaged 8514 and nearly bankrupt the sport.

The format had nothing to do with the disaster that was......the choice of venues coupled with little marketing was the reason it failed.


Sir Kevin Sinfield wrote:EDIT: I won't mention 2008 as it doesn't suit my flawed arguement


Sir Kevin Sinfield wrote:In 2013 we averaged 16,374 in the UK, yes there were promo codes available, but this didn’t double all attendances.

"SOME PROMO CODES".....lol.......The Venues bid to host games, something that didn't happen in 2000 and something that impacted in 2017 when NSW didn't bother......there were tickets available for a fiver....£5 a pop and then no home England International for a year afterwards....so it was a fire sale with no follow up.....the proof is Australia were watched by a handful of fans in 2013 outside of the 2 double headers they were involved in.......5k in Ireland, 5k for the Quarter final in Wales.....FIVE THOUSAND and that's with discounts galore.
Sir Kevin Sinfield wrote:In 2017 we averaged 13,646 without promo codes and with an Australian public reluctant to watch International Rugby League.

Down from 16k in the somewhat strangely omitted 2008 tournament?.......and also using your beloved warped format of a super group?????

Sir Kevin Sinfield wrote:Why go back to a format similar to 2000, it was a disaster.

It was a financial disaster because it was badly run, not because of the format.

In 2000 England v Australia at Twickenham got 34,000 for the opening game...in enemy territory......in 2017 Australia v England got 23,000 in Melbourne......again, enemy territory....but Australia v England in Brisbane for the final got only 6k more than the 2000 opener.......and got 10k fewer than the 2008 (strange you omitted that) Final.

The format makes no odds.......the marketing and selling of games to venues will generate the profit and the interest.....and getting apathetic RL fans to fork out £20 for anything other than an England game is a thankless task, especially as everyone knows to wait for the promo codes now.... :roll:






JESUS WEPT :WALL: HOW MANY TIMES?????
£20 a ticket and £15 on beer and merchandise.....so an away fan is worth £35. At best, 1,000 is the average away support split across 11 rounds and I am being really generous here, so Toronto, replacing say Wakefield will cost a SL club £35,000.
The minimum turnover of a SL club is £4,000,000 so Toronto instead of Widnes is worth less than 1% of a SL clubs turnover.

There are many valid reasons for and against expansion into America, but "AWAY FANS" isn't one of them. :BEAT:

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 World Cup
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 9:55 pm 
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Do you think the 2021 format will beat the 16,374 average we achieved when we last hosted a World Cup?

The group games will throw up very one sided fixtures with little interest in them.

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 Post subject: Re: 2021 World Cup
PostPosted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:28 pm 
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Sir Kevin Sinfield wrote:Do you think the 2021 format will beat the 16,374 average we achieved when we last hosted a World Cup?

Given I said 2013 would get 290,000 at best, I'll steer away from predicting specific crowd numbers if that's OK with you :oops: but it will take a huge effort to get 500,000 to games....let alone the revised and reduced target of 750,000 (down from the million we pledged to get the funding)..... :CURTAIN:

Sir Kevin Sinfield wrote:The group games will throw up very one sided fixtures with little interest in them.


RL fans will turn up to watch games regardless of the scenarios in play. Yes, England v Jamaica has only one result, but Scotland v Jamaica or Ireland v Jamaica or even Scotland v Ireland with a QF place at stake are no blow outs.......4 blow out games in 4 groups, but in your group A, would Aussie currently go in against Fiji as red hot?...I your 4th group, Franc, Canada and Wales would all go at it hard....and Samoa v PNG in group B would be a must see game (sponsored by an insurance company I'd hope....First Direct?)

The format isn't the issue, it's selling the games that matters. If we target 500,000 pre-sales before the start of 2021, with every school and amateur club paid 50% commission on sales, then yes, we can do it, but if we rely on grab0ne or other last minute offers, then we're screwed!






JESUS WEPT :WALL: HOW MANY TIMES?????
£20 a ticket and £15 on beer and merchandise.....so an away fan is worth £35. At best, 1,000 is the average away support split across 11 rounds and I am being really generous here, so Toronto, replacing say Wakefield will cost a SL club £35,000.
The minimum turnover of a SL club is £4,000,000 so Toronto instead of Widnes is worth less than 1% of a SL clubs turnover.

There are many valid reasons for and against expansion into America, but "AWAY FANS" isn't one of them. :BEAT:

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