Re: Lying in the ruck = penalty : Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:35 am  

Mitch Garbutt is the only player in Super League who plays the ball correctly. Our rucks and PTBs are a mess

Re: Lying in the ruck = penalty : Mon Mar 18, 2019 8:31 am  

I think the refs should use more discretion
If the defender is attempting to clear the ruck area it's no penalty, if he is making no attempt then penalise him.
Similarly if the acting half back deliberately hits the defender with the ball it's no penalty.
In yesterday's HKR v Catalan game, Tompkins deliberately passed the ball so it hit a retreating HKR player, it wasn't accidental, it was so blatant it was almost a forward pass.

Re: Lying in the ruck = penalty : Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:03 am  

Minichello tackled a Wakefield player on Friday, and was trying to get up. Danny Brough was moving into dummy half and was nudging Minichiello with his knee and keeping him on the floor, and in the way and Brough gets the penalty.

Re: Lying in the ruck = penalty : Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:06 pm  

2 cases of point.

1. Saints Dominic Peyroux is tackled with tackler underneath him during tackling motion but rolls off, Peyroux then deliberately climbs back on top of the tackler *as if he wants to dry hump him* & holds the tackler down while getting up & stepping over him to the play the ball guess where ? Got it straight at the tackler he pinned down for some brotherly love !!! Result, penalty to Saints, WTF ?

2. Melbourne v Brisbane, tackled player steps over prone tackler & plays the ball straight at him, result, play on !

Re: Lying in the ruck = penalty : Mon Mar 18, 2019 12:53 pm  

The rules as written are fine just apply them all, if atackled player gets up quickly plays the ball correctly then penalise any player who deliberately gets involved if they try to get out of the way & are not involved play on. Interestingly the rules say place or drop the ball & play it backwards? Tey dropping it now & not give away a scrum for a knock on. Surely the RFLmust know that the play the ball is a mess that infuriates most spectators? I would love to go back to a time when trying to win a penalty was considered cheating & beyond contempt.

Re: Lying in the ruck = penalty : Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:53 pm  

Beverley red wrote:

The rules as written are fine just apply them all

This is pretty much the answer to most niggles with RL - the problem we have is that officials seem to be adapting and evolving the rules on the fly - in pursuit of a faster and faster game - and that leaves coaches and players with the leeway to also adapt and evolve how they'll exploit them.

This relatively new and easily exploitable purge on tacklers in the ruck is just the latest example - of the matches I saw at the weekend, I'd say that more than half the penalties awarded for that offence were unnecessary and involved some form of cheating by the attacking player; it's not a good look for the game.

Re: Lying in the ruck = penalty : Mon Mar 18, 2019 1:55 pm  

Ste100Centurions wrote:

2 cases of point.

1. Saints Dominic Peyroux is tackled with tackler underneath him during tackling motion but rolls off, Peyroux then deliberately climbs back on top of the tackler *as if he wants to dry hump him* & holds the tackler down while getting up & stepping over him to the play the ball guess where ? Got it straight at the tackler he pinned down for some brotherly love !!! Result, penalty to Saints, WTF ?

Tackler didn't roll off quick enough, Peyroux always goes for a quick PTB and he knew the tackler couldn't roll away to the side because Peyroux's legs were in the way, a 50-50 decision in our favour because Peyroux did not hold the player down.

[Chris71]

Re: Lying in the ruck = penalty : Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:31 pm  

Judder Man wrote:

Tackler didn't roll off quick enough, Peyroux always goes for a quick PTB and he knew the tackler couldn't roll away to the side because Peyroux's legs were in the way, a 50-50 decision in our favour because Peyroux did not hold the player down.

So that is gamesmanship as Peyroux knowingly prevented a player rolling out the way by standing over him and unfortunately gameship has really crept in to RL recently and unless the RFL and the referees get a grip it will just mean the sport descending in to farce.

If a player makes a tackle and ends up in a position where they can not roll away due to the attacking player stood with a leg either side and the ball is deliberatley played into the prone defender then it should be play on or a penalty to the defending team for deliberately playing for a penalty.

In the Hull V Wakefield game Brough knew exactly what he was doing and deliberately stood over Minichello (to trap him) as he was in the process of rolling away from the tackled player, who then stood up and played the ball and Brough then let it hit Minichello and waved his arms for the penalty and was rewarded for his gamesmanship which is pretty much cheating for a penalty.

Another poor decision in the same game was Taylor being penalised for having a Wakefield player who he had tackled laid on top of him writhing around to gain a penalty when all he had to do was stand up as Taylor was clearly no holding him down but was unable to clear the area as the Wakefield player was laid on top making no attempt to get up. Similarly Jacob Miller running directly at a static Hull defender and throwing himself dramatically to the floor to yet again gain a penalty by conning the ref.

These are the areas refs need to seriously clean up otherwise the game will be ruined.

If an opposing player stands over a player that made a tackle then the ref should either let play go on or penalise the attacking player for simulation same as in football for diving.

Re: Lying in the ruck = penalty : Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:05 pm  

The ptb is a horror show at present. Defenders lying on, players flopping onto tackled players (why isn't that penalised anymore?). Attackers moving off the mark, trapping defenders with their arms. Ball stealing v loose carries. Its a bit like RU scrums in the sense that who gets penalised is a lottery.

Re: Lying in the ruck = penalty : Mon Mar 18, 2019 4:08 pm  

Chris71 wrote:

So that is gamesmanship as Peyroux knowingly prevented a player rolling out the way by standing over him and unfortunately gameship has really crept in to RL recently and unless the RFL and the referees get a grip it will just mean the sport descending in to farce.

If a player makes a tackle and ends up in a position where they can not roll away due to the attacking player stood with a leg either side and the ball is deliberatley played into the prone defender then it should be play on or a penalty to the defending team for deliberately playing for a penalty.

In the Hull V Wakefield game Brough knew exactly what he was doing and deliberately stood over Minichello (to trap him) as he was in the process of rolling away from the tackled player, who then stood up and played the ball and Brough then let it hit Minichello and waved his arms for the penalty and was rewarded for his gamesmanship which is pretty much cheating for a penalty.

Another poor decision in the same game was Taylor being penalised for having a Wakefield player who he had tackled laid on top of him writhing around to gain a penalty when all he had to do was stand up as Taylor was clearly no holding him down but was unable to clear the area as the Wakefield player was laid on top making no attempt to get up. Similarly Jacob Miller running directly at a static Hull defender and throwing himself dramatically to the floor to yet again gain a penalty by conning the ref.

These are the areas refs need to seriously clean up otherwise the game will be ruined.

If an opposing player stands over a player that made a tackle then the ref should either let play go on or penalise the attacking player for simulation same as in football for diving.

What you see sometimes with refs is that they judged who dominated the tackle impact and give the advantage to the dominator, what you saw with Peyroux was aggression to play the ball on his terms and hence won the benefit of the doubt.

Its when you see a slow ruck maul and the player gets dominated but moves way forward off the mark, sometimes you see a player stepping laterally to the side to play the ball into a player who has rolled to the side, those 2 incidents are definitely penalties to the defending side.

Another problem is the ref turns his head away from the PTB to set the 10 metres that could be only 2 seconds but when looks again to the PTB he sees a different scenario and makes a calculated decision, we really need 2 referees one to police the PTB and one to set the defensive line.