Re: Lying in the ruck = penalty : Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:12 am  

bren2k wrote:

I absolutely did not leap to Trinity's defence; I have said repeatedly on many threads about the wild west that the ruck has become, that *all* coaches and lots of players are guilty of exploiting the ever-changing interpretation of the rules to great effect - such that plenty of games become almost unwatchable to anyone who enjoys the game played properly, and incomprehensible to a casual viewer.

For clarity - I'd penalise Danny Brough as readily as I'd penalise anyone else who uses the grubby tactic of drawing a penalty by deliberately throwing the ball at a defender who isn't impeding him; equally, I'd penalise any player who deliberately impedes the ptb.

In short, apply the rules as written to *all* situations in *all* games, and the problem fairly quickly disappears; it's simple economics - if the cost outweighs the potential benefits, behaviour will change.

I'm starting to doubt the referees even know the rules, SL has become unwatchable with the muppets in the middle.

Re: Lying in the ruck = penalty : Tue Mar 19, 2019 11:09 pm  

The problem is that RL has become overly technical. This has been gradually building the last 20 years through the need to 'innovate'.

It would be very brave, but maybe drop some of these overly technical aspects and allow the refs to show a bit more judgement themselves instead of the strict structure we have now.

Some may cry out about rubbish refs, and you may be right, but are they rubbish because all they now do is follow overly technical rules to the letter without just using a bit of common sense?

Re: Lying in the ruck = penalty : Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:10 pm  

infamous grouse wrote:

I think the refs should use more discretion
If the defender is attempting to clear the ruck area it's no penalty, if he is making no attempt then penalise him.
Similarly if the acting half back deliberately hits the defender with the ball it's no penalty.
In yesterday's HKR v Catalan game, Tompkins deliberately passed the ball so it hit a retreating HKR player, it wasn't accidental, it was so blatant it was almost a forward pass.

The easiest thing to do is to have a zero tolerance approach right or wrong. Were you hit by the ball y/n and were you in an ofside position? You could always impose a tap restart and set of six rather than a full penalty if we thought that the full penalty was too harsh. Putting the responsibility on the defenders would call for a change in behaviour. Too often the attacking team is hindered by having to straddle a prone body and the ref shouts play on.

Re: Lying in the ruck = penalty : Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:01 am  

This is getting farcical now. Can't and shouldn't be left til end of the season to resolve it.

Aside from anything else, the game as a spectacle is really suffering.

It's dead simple as far as I am concerned. If the defending player makes an attempt to move but is trapped or can't move, play on. If the player just lies there and it's a general obstruction, penalty. If there is an attempt by the attacker to cheat the rule (ie diving, deliberately placing the ball over the defender, penalty the other way.

Re: Lying in the ruck = penalty : Tue Apr 23, 2019 11:25 am  

Wirefan wrote:

This is getting farcical now. Can't and shouldn't be left til end of the season to resolve it.

Aside from anything else, the game as a spectacle is really suffering.

It's dead simple as far as I am concerned. If the defending player makes an attempt to move but is trapped or can't move, play on. If the player just lies there and it's a general obstruction, penalty. If there is an attempt by the attacker to cheat the rule (ie diving, deliberately placing the ball over the defender, penalty the other way.

The Hull coach has said that there is a coaches meeting on May 1st where this ruck situation will be addressed. The ruck penalties in the Catalans v Castleford match ruined my enjoyment of the match particularly as I watch all NRL matches where the problem has been resolved.

Re: Lying in the ruck = penalty : Tue Apr 23, 2019 3:58 pm  

Freddie Miller. wrote:

The Hull coach has said that there is a coaches meeting on May 1st where this ruck situation will be addressed. The ruck penalties in the Catalans v Castleford match ruined my enjoyment of the match particularly as I watch all NRL matches where the problem has been resolved.

James Child set precedent yesterday by giving Catalan a penalty for not even attempting to play the ball, just hoofing it backwards 5 yards into a Cas player...What should have been a Cas penalty resulted in a Catalan penalty then try from the tap.

Once that happen, Cas had had enough so did what every team they've played this season has done which resulted in everyone on Twitter thinking Shenton is the 2nd coming of Satan himself....Then Catalan went on to do the same thing a further 3 times

Child should be dropped for causing all of that in yesterdays game and players doing it need to be straight up sin binned.

Powell after the game pretty much said if they cheat we'll cheat:

“The amount of cheating in games is growing. Playing the ball into players on the floor, playing it at 100 miles an hour and we’re cheating to combat the cheating.

“It’s worse than football at the moment. I just think it’s disgraceful, they have to get a grip of it because I thought it was a shambles.

“I thought it was appalling. We’re saying if that’s the way it is we’re not going to get hurt by it all the time, we’ll do it ourselves.

“It has to be stamped out. They have to do something about it and the Rugby League have to act pretty quickly, I think.”

Refs that actually know the rules and then enforce them correctly would be a start.

Re: Lying in the ruck = penalty : Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:36 pm  

To be honest I thought the ploy of passing the ball at a prostrate defender had been dealt with. I remember Danny Houghton doing it at Wakey either last season or the one before. There was some sort of instruction passed down to the officials to stamp it out & it seemed to stop, obviously not permanently.

Just penalise the next bloke who does it, it'll soon stop.

Re: Lying in the ruck = penalty : Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:39 pm  

I can just see Powell's comments about cheating to "combat" cheating backfiring, and Cas'll end up being the first team to be penalised for it.

Re: Lying in the ruck = penalty : Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:05 pm  

Wirefan wrote:

This is getting farcical now. Can't and shouldn't be left til end of the season to resolve it.

Aside from anything else, the game as a spectacle is really suffering.

It's dead simple as far as I am concerned. If the defending player makes an attempt to move but is trapped or can't move, play on. If the player just lies there and it's a general obstruction, penalty. If there is an attempt by the attacker to cheat the rule (ie diving, deliberately placing the ball over the defender, penalty the other way.

The RFL has addressed it with immediate effect

“The following additions / amendments to 2019 referee policy have been introduced with immediate effect:

Placing the ball on the defender lying on the ground – It is the responsibility of the player playing the ball to place the ball on the ground at their feet. If necessary the player should step backwards to ensure this can be done. OUTCOME – If the ball is placed on the tackler, this will be ruled a knock-on.

Moving off the mark / stepping over to deliberately place the defender in the ruck - It is the responsibility of the player playing the ball to place the ball on the ground at their feet, and not to advance off the mark - if necessary the player should step backwards. OUTCOME – The player in possession will be penalised for moving off the mark if deliberately stepping over a defender to place them in the ruck.

Playing the ball into a defender in the ruck – The player playing the ball should maintain balance and control when heeling the ball to the acting half-back.OUTCOME - In this situation the player in the ruck will be penalised if hit by the ball - or if in the opinion of the referee the half-back is prevented from picking the ball up. EXCEPTION – A penalty will be awarded against the player playing the ball if the ball is forcibly heeled back with the intention of contacting the defending player with the ball.

Passing into an opposing player – Any ball passed into an opposing player in and around the ruck, in any direction, will be deemed to be acting against the spirit of the game. OUTCOME - The passer will be immediately penalised.

Steve Ganson, the RFL’s Head of Match Officials, explained: “A number of high-profile incidents during and before the Easter weekend have shown certain teams or players acting contrary to the spirit of the game, in a manner that has infuriated fellow professionals, broadcasters and, crucially, supporters.

Re: Lying in the ruck = penalty : Tue Apr 23, 2019 5:18 pm  

Happy with this outcome,what’s the betting Gigot is first to be penalised for this,he as been by far the worse for milking these penalties it will be hard for him not to do it.