Widnes & Relegation : Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:00 am  

So, Widnes have announced they will have to operate a part time team next season & beyond. http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/990801554?-433 ... ad_top#out This to me is why relegation is flawed in RL as unless they bounce straight back they loose the parachute payment in the second season. I know part of it is the club’s own fault for getting into administration. Given the size of the sport for me, licensing should have stayed. There’s no reason under licensing SL would have to be a closed shop. We can admit teams as an when required, I’d rather have a league with more teams and only play some once rather than less teams and play some 3 times. We should be looking to grow what we’ve got, if/when we get to a position where we can sustain enough professional teams for 2 divisions then re-introduce promotion & relegation. Where we are now is risking the future of clubs & players livelihoods and their ability to support their families.

So, Widnes have announced they will have to operate a part time team next season & beyond. http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/990801554?-433 ... ad_top#out This to me is why relegation is flawed in RL as unless they bounce straight back they loose the parachute payment in the second season. I know part of it is the club’s own fault for getting into administration. Given the size of the sport for me, licensing should have stayed. There’s no reason under licensing SL would have to be a closed shop. We can admit teams as an when required, I’d rather have a league with more teams and only play some once rather than less teams and play some 3 times. We should be looking to grow what we’ve got, if/when we get to a position where we can sustain enough professional teams for 2 divisions then re-introduce promotion & relegation. Where we are now is risking the future of clubs & players livelihoods and their ability to support their families.

Re: Widnes & Relegation : Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:17 am  

Licensing does not work as it is not open and transparent.


If you want a licencing arrangement then you need to have an open points system.

I think under licensing Widnes would also struggle as licensing had critiria around attendances. Proximity to other clubs. Etc.

Liicencing kept Widnes out of SL for many years as the rfl fudged these rules keeping in teams that did not develop their stadia and did not grow their fan base and that did not meet financial rules or develop youth as the "rules" said they should.


If you had real licensing it would probably shrink the league to 8 teams.

What you have shown is that Widnes can't work in a competition environment. Not that a competitive environment does not work.

The quality of SL this year is very even and Toronto are looking strong for promotion. It actually seems fairly healthy. One club having to adjust the reality of its situation is not a barometer for the whole system.

Re: Widnes & Relegation : Sat Jun 29, 2019 8:19 am  

Trainman wrote: So, Widnes have announced they will have to operate a part time team next season & beyond. http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/990801554?-433 ... ad_top#out This to me is why relegation is flawed in RL as unless they bounce straight back they loose the parachute payment in the second season. I know part of it is the club’s own fault for getting into administration. Given the size of the sport for me, licensing should have stayed. There’s no reason under licensing SL would have to be a closed shop. We can admit teams as an when required, I’d rather have a league with more teams and only play some once rather than less teams and play some 3 times. We should be looking to grow what we’ve got, if/when we get to a position where we can sustain enough professional teams for 2 divisions then re-introduce promotion & relegation. Where we are now is risking the future of clubs & players livelihoods and their ability to support their families. What you have said is the truth pity we can not convince the super league the same why should players suffer and their families suffer when their is a answer

Trainman wrote: So, Widnes have announced they will have to operate a part time team next season & beyond. http://c.newsnow.co.uk/A/990801554?-433 ... ad_top#out This to me is why relegation is flawed in RL as unless they bounce straight back they loose the parachute payment in the second season. I know part of it is the club’s own fault for getting into administration. Given the size of the sport for me, licensing should have stayed. There’s no reason under licensing SL would have to be a closed shop. We can admit teams as an when required, I’d rather have a league with more teams and only play some once rather than less teams and play some 3 times. We should be looking to grow what we’ve got, if/when we get to a position where we can sustain enough professional teams for 2 divisions then re-introduce promotion & relegation. Where we are now is risking the future of clubs & players livelihoods and their ability to support their families. What you have said is the truth pity we can not convince the super league the same why should players suffer and their families suffer when their is a answer

[Mild Rover]

Re: Widnes & Relegation : Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:20 am  

bewareshadows wrote:

Licensing does not work as it is not open and transparent.


If you want a licencing arrangement then you need to have an open points system.

I think under licensing Widnes would also struggle as licensing had critiria around attendances. Proximity to other clubs. Etc.

Liicencing kept Widnes out of SL for many years as the rfl fudged these rules keeping in teams that did not develop their stadia and did not grow their fan base and that did not meet financial rules or develop youth as the "rules" said they should.


If you had real licensing it would probably shrink the league to 8 teams.

What you have shown is that Widnes can't work in a competition environment. Not that a competitive environment does not work.

The quality of SL this year is very even and Toronto are looking strong for promotion. It actually seems fairly healthy. One club having to adjust the reality of its situation is not a barometer for the whole system.

Licensing could work.

The licensing SL had, had two main problems imo.

1. It wasn’t honest and the Bradford situation exposed that.

2. It was very prescriptive. People who believed that some things ‘stand to reason’ and so don’t need any further thought decided that they could write a set of flat-pack instructions that would work for all clubs, whatever their circumstances.

The issue really is the sudden drop-off in revenue and with a full-time top division that has to fall... somewhere. They tried to smooth it out a bit in the 8s system, but it really just moved to midway down the Championship.

Re: Widnes & Relegation : Sat Jun 29, 2019 9:33 am  

When there is no relegation, the bottom clubs have nothing to play for,hence meaningless games,hence poor attendances. Atm it is all to play for,so this structure is proving to be working nicely.

Re: Widnes & Relegation : Sat Jun 29, 2019 10:09 am  

Cokey wrote:

When there is no relegation, the bottom clubs have nothing to play for,hence meaningless games,hence poor attendances. Atm it is all to play for,so this structure is proving to be working nicely.

How come that doesn’t happen in the NRL though?

There are plenty of clubs who can’t make the playoffs in the NRL yet they don’t get meaningless games.

As for attendances are they higher now than under licensing?

What actually happens when there is no relegation is that it gives clubs towards the bottom of the table the opportunity to plan and to grow instead of constant panic short term decisions to avoid relegation.

The sport isn’t big enough for P&R. We have what, 14? fully professional clubs? And even then whilst the players might be fully professional the clubs themselves are not in a good position with low crowds, poor facilities and very poor infrastructures.
We have probably 5 or 6 clubs in anything like a position that’s comfortable off the pitch.

That does NOT lend itself to a P&R system. To constantly weaken and hinder the development of already weak clubs is not healthy for a sport in our position.

P&R would only work if we had 20 ish clubs that are fully professional both on and off the pitch.
It works in football because they have 90 clubs that are full time.
If you compare RL to football it would be akin to being relegated from the Championship and going straight to the Conference and a Conference team being promoted to the Championship. It’s massively destabilising for both the clubs relegated and those not relegated but involved in the relegation fight.

Most RL fans cry out for the sport to put some medium and long term plans in place. And then demand a system that ONLY allows short term planning.

Re: Widnes & Relegation : Sat Jun 29, 2019 1:21 pm  

Widnes are a club who relied on the handout. Would they warrant a licence considering they’re clearly no were near self sufficient (not saying all clubs are like). I’m all for relegation. It’s exciting, nerve wracking and what sport is all about.

Re: Widnes & Relegation : Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:42 pm  

Problem we have is every system we’ve tried has its flaws and after 2/3 years of it fans focus and complain about the cons instead of the pros. Whatever we try next (and let’s be honest we’ll probably have something new within 3/4 years) will be the exact same.

Re: Widnes & Relegation : Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:10 pm  

It's an entertainment industry. The relegation battle is 10 times more exciting than the top this year. If you take away relegation we are left with a much less interesting package.

Re: Widnes & Relegation : Sat Jun 29, 2019 3:20 pm  

Someday wrote:

What you have said is the truth pity we can not convince the super league the same why should players suffer and their families suffer when their is a answer

They can get second jobs, their wives can work it's not 1950!