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I wish everyone would read bramleyrhino's post two or three times just to get it through some thick skulls


Mr bramleyrhino speaks a lot of sense.


Jamie Jones-Buchanan wrote:
"I'd never forgive myself if a child of mine was born in Lancashire.

wrencat1873 wrote:
The band at Leeds & Cowbell at Huddersfield would be reasons not to attend games at Headingley or The John Smiths Stadium.
However, I fundamentally disagree with you regarding the atmosphere.

Most derby games have "a better atmosphere" than say London or Catalan coming to town.

It seems ridiculous to suggest that having attended say Wakefield v Cas and then Wakefield v London, that you would prefer to go to another Wakefield v London game in preference to the derby game.
Equally, the old Leeds v Bradford games were on a different level to Leeds v Huddersfield or Leeds v Salford.


I'm not making that point and I'm not disputing that local games have a better atmosphere than a game between distant rivals. I genuinely can't fathom how you've interpreted my comments that way. You didn't talk about atmosphere - you spoke about match experience.

The atmosphere is something that's hard to cultivate. It's based on many factors - local rivalry, reactions to on-field events, what's at stake, etc. It's something that we should try to preserve but to say that it relies on away fans to do that isn't accurate. Some of the best atmosphere's I have been in, in many different sports, have been where there have been no away fans in the ground.

Matchday experience is something that a club can influence. It can be something such as pre-match or post-match entertainment (that's what the South Stand concourse live music was refering to, not the bloke with the trumpet). It can be influenced by things such as the choice of food and refreshment - is there a good choice or is it the usual crap of boiled burgers and toilet water Carlsberg and Carling are bottling these days, for example? It can be influenced by the quality of facilities and views, for example - all stuff that is in the control of the clubs irrespective of away fans.

Therefore, regardless of direct income from these games, I'm sure that the majority of fans would pick the derby fixture.


Two things here.

Firstly, the decision to pick that game probably has little to do with how many away fans are there and more to do with the overall appeal of the fixture itself. Wigan v St Helens/Warrington, St Helens v Warrington and Leeds v Bradford/Castleford would usually (Leeds' recent form excepted) have something big riding on it - that is what draws in the punters.

Secondly, the recent fan fatigue around loop fixtures suggests that "more of that" is not the right approach. Fans aren't chosing to go to those derbies because, the chances are, there is another one along very soon.

Conversely, Leeds v Catalan at Headingley will have more thrown at it in terms of marketing than certain other fixtures.
Many clubs already include offers for the games where there are expected to be very few visiting spectators.

Of course, Toronto in the Championship, due to their huge spend on players, have been something different and despite their lack of travelling fans, the locals have come along in great numbers to see if their side could topple their big spending rivals.
This would be somewhat less attractive when the home side is spending similar amounts and should their winning bubble burst, which you would expect when they play Wigan, Saints and Warrington etc, some of their "allure" will disappear and they will likely become, "just another side", with no supporters.


That fall in crowds isn't inevitable if the clubs can make those games something that locals want to buy. Yes, derbies will always hold more appeal but that doesn't mean that clubs cannot sell any given fixture with the right approach. There is so much attention and focus placed on the notion of away fans which, whether you approach it from either a financial perspective or more intangible perspective, is too small a factor in my view to be allowed to dictate the direction of travel for this sport.

There are so many assumptions of what will or won't happen but these are largely based on how clubs are promoting themselves now - and the consensus for many years seems to be that those methods need to change. Why not start that change now?
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