Re: Challenge Cup 2020 : Thu Nov 28, 2019 8:56 am  

bramleyrhino wrote:

You're right. Times do change. But that also means that the RFL needs to change with it - and that's my point. I'm not just talking about simply "advertising more" and doing more of the same things that clearly aren't working - I'm talking about making changes that ensures that the CC Final is and remains relevant in the wider sporting market. The cup needs an entire rebrand. New and casual fans don't care about the history or tradition.

You can make the CC Final something exciting. You can make it something that entertains people and something that people want to buy. You can also dismiss all of the above as "pie in the Sky" and "something the game can't afford" but do you know what happens to businesses that don't adapt to the market? They die.

I don't disagree with anything you say, it's all very very thoughtful stuff.

But I think we "adapted to the market" by creating the Grand Final - iconic stadium, massive crowd and atmosphere and you don't have to travel over 200 miles and then navigate yourself through London where we've all probably been many times before (unlike years ago) all for 80 minutes. I cannot think of any pre-match entertainment that could get me going there unless perhaps Elvis isn't dead and he does his comeback show before the match, or more unlikely the Gallagher brothers do a one off Oasis gig.

As for the day out element boy did I enjoy Magic in Edingburgh and Cardiff, and even a trip to the Etihad, plus Newcastle was a great idea. The Magic weekend is three matches and a day of partying with mates or family. That package beats the cup final which as an event is probably now a distant third best to the Grand Final and Magic.

Sure we can re-brand and make changes - and your post certainly prompts us all to do this, the only problem I have is I cannot think of anything they can do with the Cup final at Wembley that would get me to go there, and for me the way the game has gone with the Grand Final and Magic Weekend is to actually shoot themselves in the foot as regards wembley, but that wound was well worth suffering as we have two bigger and better events instead.

We used to sell Wembley out because (GB.v.Aussie tests apart) it was the only big day of the year. For me ( and I have tried so hard to think of something which your asking us to do) but no matter what you do with it for me, it will remain third rate to Magic and Old Trafford. We keep it as it's one of the few RL events that gets on terrestrial TV and therefore it advertises the sport to a large national audience - something we neeed when we are usually tucked away behind the paywall!!

Re: Challenge Cup 2020 : Thu Nov 28, 2019 12:34 pm  

Donnyman wrote:

I don't disagree with anything you say, it's all very very thoughtful stuff.

But I think we "adapted to the market" by creating the Grand Final - iconic stadium, massive crowd and atmosphere and you don't have to travel over 200 miles and then navigate yourself through London where we've all probably been many times before (unlike years ago) all for 80 minutes. I cannot think of any pre-match entertainment that could get me going there unless perhaps Elvis isn't dead and he does his comeback show before the match, or more unlikely the Gallagher brothers do a one off Oasis gig.

As for the day out element boy did I enjoy Magic in Edingburgh and Cardiff, and even a trip to the Etihad, plus Newcastle was a great idea. The Magic weekend is three matches and a day of partying with mates or family. That package beats the cup final which as an event is probably now a distant third best to the Grand Final and Magic.

Sure we can re-brand and make changes - and your post certainly prompts us all to do this, the only problem I have is I cannot think of anything they can do with the Cup final at Wembley that would get me to go there, and for me the way the game has gone with the Grand Final and Magic Weekend is to actually shoot themselves in the foot as regards wembley, but that wound was well worth suffering as we have two bigger and better events instead.

We used to sell Wembley out because (GB.v.Aussie tests apart) it was the only big day of the year. For me ( and I have tried so hard to think of something which your asking us to do) but no matter what you do with it for me, it will remain third rate to Magic and Old Trafford. We keep it as it's one of the few RL events that gets on terrestrial TV and therefore it advertises the sport to a large national audience - something we neeed when we are usually tucked away behind the paywall!!

I think the point about "too many events" is a very fair one, but this is where RL has essentially cannibalised itself because every event, whether its the Grand Final, Magic, Summer Bash, loop fixtures or the CC Final is being aimed at and is trying to appeal to the same, diminishing pool of people.

Not one of those events is really making a concerted effort to appeal to that new generation or new demographic. The people who "just want the 80 minutes" will always be there and there's nothing wrong with that. But if you're going to get your event to stand out to those non-typical RL fans, you need to offer something different and relevant - especially in such a crowded leisure market as London.

Re: Challenge Cup 2020 : Sat Nov 30, 2019 8:45 am  

bramleyrhino wrote:

I think the point about "too many events" is a very fair one, but this is where RL has essentially cannibalised itself because every event, whether its the Grand Final, Magic, Summer Bash, loop fixtures or the CC Final is being aimed at and is trying to appeal to the same, diminishing pool of people.

Not one of those events is really making a concerted effort to appeal to that new generation or new demographic. The people who "just want the 80 minutes" will always be there and there's nothing wrong with that. But if you're going to get your event to stand out to those non-typical RL fans, you need to offer something different and relevant especially in such a crowded leisure market as London.

Your a very astute gentleman and nobody can argue sensibly with your analysis, all too often the stock tedious answer to improving paying attendances is "marketing, we need more marketing". The only problem with that is if you spend £10,000 more on the marketing and sell £5,000 worth of tickets more than you would have sold it's creates a negative result, you end up £5,000 out of pocket. Clearly making the event more attractive to potential paying attendees is the solution.

That stock tedious answer "Marketing" is to me insulting to the marketing managers of the Superleague clubs, it's not as if they haven't found solutions at some points. Keighleys cougarmania followed by Bullmania worked for a significant time, but all the extra razzamatazz without the extra Rugby league content eventually became boring. Having said that my ticket to the big season opener covers the content of two Superleague games, the debut of a Canadian side (yes I know but it will look good to people on a billboard) and the debut of one of Rugby's greatest. All in a wonderful new stadium with great facilities. It will be interesting to see if it sells out, but even if it does we must remember Mr. Argyle will be standing the major revenue loss of a 9,000 home crowd??? (Have I got this right?)

It is clearly a very difficult thing to do to make an event more attractive without increasing the costs/losses of staging it and thus reducing the profits??

Re: Challenge Cup 2020 : Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:42 pm  

Donnyman wrote:

Your a very astute gentleman and nobody can argue sensibly with your analysis, all too often the stock tedious answer to improving paying attendances is "marketing, we need more marketing". The only problem with that is if you spend £10,000 more on the marketing and sell £5,000 worth of tickets more than you would have sold it's creates a negative result, you end up £5,000 out of pocket. Clearly making the event more attractive to potential paying attendees is the solution.

That stock tedious answer "Marketing" is to me insulting to the marketing managers of the Superleague clubs, it's not as if they haven't found solutions at some points. Keighleys cougarmania followed by Bullmania worked for a significant time, but all the extra razzamatazz without the extra Rugby league content eventually became boring. Having said that my ticket to the big season opener covers the content of two Superleague games, the debut of a Canadian side (yes I know but it will look good to people on a billboard) and the debut of one of Rugby's greatest. All in a wonderful new stadium with great facilities. It will be interesting to see if it sells out, but even if it does we must remember Mr. Argyle will be standing the major revenue loss of a 9,000 home crowd??? (Have I got this right?)

It is clearly a very difficult thing to do to make an event more attractive without increasing the costs/losses of staging it and thus reducing the profits??

I think the biggest mistake people make in that scenario is that they accuse "marketing" with "advertising". The say things like "I was in <insert name of city hosting RL event> and I didn't see any posters". That's not a failure of marketing - it's a failure of advertising.

Advertising is the big that shouts about what you've got. Marketing is the bit that works out whether you're shouting about the right thing, and determines how you adapt it to make it something that people want to (and can) buy. Marketing is the thing that Apple uses to convice people that they need a new phone that they never realised they needed. Advertising is the thing they use to tell them when to start camping outside the shop.

So in many cases, the point of failure is in the marketing. Not because the game isn't telling people about RL, but because it isn't understanding who it's telling and what they actually want. Many RL events are not very marketable products for a wide spectrum of people - they just don't appeal to people outside the core base and that's why events like Magic and Bash cannibalise the CC Final.

That's what I mean when I say that RL cannot 'advertise' its way out the problems it has got itself into. It can't fix this issue by just yelling "TGG" at people and making out that the people who can't see that are the ones that are wrong. You can't force people to like RL, but you can adapt it to make it something that more people will like.

If that makes the cost of doing business more expensive, then that's the modern reality that we're in.