Re: The Key to Success is... : Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:01 am  

Donnyman wrote:

Ultimately we exist because SKY pay for us to exist. SKY don't want a Transatlantic league they want an English league. The TV deal won't shrink it will disappear if we let all these phoney clubs in. The problem is the RL press doesn't have the guts or the honesty to make the slightest effort to analyse the effect of what this "expansion" as they call it will have on the game here. Lockwood and Sadler sit there saying how great it is, but they know darn well substituting English clubs for NA clubs is a death warrant.

Do you have any evidence from Sky saying this?

The argument that Sky would prefer Bradford, Leigh or Widnes in SL over TW or Toulouse seems to be based on the suggestion that there is huge latent demand from people in those towns for Sky Sports, if only those clubs were in SL.

Do you seriously believe that there is a significant proportion of existing and potential RL fans in those areas who, despite being willing and able to subscribe to Sky Sports, currently don't because Bradford, Widnes and/or Leigh aren't in SL? A big enough pool of people to make or break a TV deal? I think it's utterly fanciful to believe that.

Sky is not out only potential customer when it comes to TV rights. We had a deal with BeIn, until the great negotiator Elstone stuck his oar in.

Re: The Key to Success is... : Wed Jan 08, 2020 11:10 am  

Barbed Wire wrote:

It also costs more money to get that income. Top line, that’s correct, but to open the doors costs money. Banging on about away teams not bringing supporters is irrelevant. I’d rather have a progressive club with ambition getting the game coverage that an age-old plodder who bring 500 fans.

I for one will be looking forward to watching Toronto. Regardless of the away end is empty. And the media interest in them, and hundreds of pages of debate on here, proves it is worthwhile for the sport, given that they are not taking any handouts from the game.

They will however cost each club a decent slice of cash.

To take a full squad + associated staff to Toronto for 3/4 days isn't going to come cheap.
Certainly a trip (for Wire) to Widnes on a Friday night will be a hell of a lot less than travelling halfway around the planet for 80 mins of RL.

I'm sure that "we" have thought forward all of the scenarios for a successful Toronto and just like Catalan, they will be immune to the short notice fixture changes and Thursday nights, that affect all of the other clubs in SL.

You rightly say that they aren't taking a slice of the Sky money but, IIRC, they (Toronto) were expecting to line up a TV deal, which seems to have gone with the wind and of all of the clubs in SL they will be most reliant on their consortium pumping in $millions every season to keep the ship afloat.
With their squad spend, especially with the SBW contract, they will be spending at an unsustainable rate but, tat is of course their prerogative.

Although I dont think that they belong in a "European" competition, I'm looking forward to seeing them both home and away, although the trip over there will be a "one off", rather than a regular thing.
Trips to Frances are peanuts compared to Toronto and beyond the means of most RL fans, which is a real shame.
Fundamentally, it still seems crazy to try and spread the game to a new continent 3500 miles away, when the UK "market" remains untapped.

Re: The Key to Success is... : Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:16 pm  

Barbed Wire wrote:

It also costs more money to get that income. Top line, that’s correct, but to open the doors costs money. Banging on about away teams not bringing supporters is irrelevant. I’d rather have a progressive club with ambition getting the game coverage that an age-old plodder who bring 500 fans.

I for one will be looking forward to watching Toronto. Regardless of the away end is empty. And the media interest in them, and hundreds of pages of debate on here, proves it is worthwhile for the sport, given that they are not taking any handouts from the game.

OK, so let's all play in empty stadiums then and save the clubs some money!!!

I'm sure SKY or another broadcaster would continue to fund a sport that had no physical fans attending

Re: The Key to Success is... : Wed Jan 08, 2020 6:27 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

You rightly say that they aren't taking a slice of the Sky money but, IIRC, they (Toronto) were expecting to line up a TV deal, which seems to have gone with the wind and of all of the clubs in SL they will be most reliant on their consortium pumping in $millions every season to keep the ship afloat.

Fundamentally, it still seems crazy to try and spread the game to a new continent 3500 miles away, when the UK "market" remains untapped.

Re the TV deal, it wouldn't seem essential they sign one right away. Who knows, maybe they'll capture the imagination and be offered one next year. Not nailed on, granted. Then again, there was also a lot of expectation that Elstone would be lining up a good deal for the other 11 clubs. We may yet find our own clubs need a financial defibrillating if the rumours are to be believed.

It would be crazy to try spread the game 3500 miles away. But fact is, the European game has barely lifted a finger and has had TWP dropped into its lap. The economics are such that it'll either sink or swim; no halfway house here where we're left with a ghost club that limps along once the serious money has run out.

Re: The Key to Success is... : Wed Jan 08, 2020 7:35 pm  

bramleyrhino wrote:

Do you have any evidence from Sky saying this?

The argument that Sky would prefer Bradford, Leigh or Widnes in SL over TW or Toulouse seems to be based on the suggestion that there is huge latent demand from people in those towns for Sky Sports, if only those clubs were in SL.

Do you seriously believe that there is a significant proportion of existing and potential RL fans in those areas who, despite being willing and able to subscribe to Sky Sports, currently don't because Bradford, Widnes and/or Leigh aren't in SL? A big enough pool of people to make or break a TV deal? I think it's utterly fanciful to believe that.

Sky is not out only potential customer when it comes to TV rights. We had a deal with BeIn, until the great negotiator Elstone stuck his oar in.

Any evidence of BeIn's intersest?

Re: The Key to Success is... : Sat Jan 11, 2020 11:47 pm  

IR80 wrote:

Any evidence of BeIn's intersest?

Pretty sure he is talking about Catalan Dragons. Elstone demanded more money and they walked away.

Bein won't step into the UK market unless they can win premiership football rights. They were tempted a few years ago but decided not to bid.

Re: The Key to Success is... : Sun Jan 12, 2020 5:17 am  

kobashi wrote:

Pretty sure he is talking about Catalan Dragons. Elstone demanded more money and they walked away.

Bein won't step into the UK market unless they can win premiership football rights. They were tempted a few years ago but decided not to bid.

thanks

Re: The Key to Success is... : Mon Jan 13, 2020 9:29 am  

Clearwing wrote:

Re the TV deal, it wouldn't seem essential they sign one right away. Who knows, maybe they'll capture the imagination and be offered one next year. Not nailed on, granted. Then again, there was also a lot of expectation that Elstone would be lining up a good deal for the other 11 clubs. We may yet find our own clubs need a financial defibrillating if the rumours are to be believed.

It would be crazy to try spread the game 3500 miles away. But fact is, the European game has barely lifted a finger and has had TWP dropped into its lap. The economics are such that it'll either sink or swim; no halfway house here where we're left with a ghost club that limps along once the serious money has run out.

The serious money runs into thousands of $$Millions that increases as more potash is extracted from Brazilian mines. The $5 million plus a year that backs Toronto Wolfpack goes on as long as the owner goes on. You could say the same for Huddersfield or any club who is dependent on a sub from the owner.

The rumours don't trump the reality that a SKY deal is lined up, the reality is how much will it be? Last time the massive increase was given to us to cut BT's legs from under them and secure Rugby League for SKY for several years more. SKY want the game,...all they are saying is don't expect as much next time.

Out of the £200M last time only about 65% was for Superleague. A lot of money was wasted on the Championship to set up the MPG and spread monies to all clubs. Superleague are clear they will take all the money this time, so Superleague clubs will in the end preside over a reduced contract, but the SL clubs will not get a reduced amount. The championship will take a massive hit though.....

The 2 + 2 = 5 rumours don't understand the detail. They think if we get £150M this time it will be a disaster. If all that money goes just to Superleague then SL clubs will be on more TV money this time (and one again Championship clubs will get nowt this time). Also note the heavy hints and moves to create a 10 club SL 2022....a 1/10th. share of the TV money will be bigger than a 1/12th share as well

The future of Rugby League is not France, it is not North America, it is an English TV deal for English clubs. Why do people think Perez is behind a desk in Bradford (and not Ottawa) answering to Nigel Wood?

Re: The Key to Success is... : Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:32 am  

Donnyman wrote:

The serious money runs into thousands of $$Millions that increases as more potash is extracted from Brazilian mines. The $5 million plus a year that backs Toronto Wolfpack goes on as long as the owner goes on. You could say the same for Huddersfield or any club who is dependent on a sub from the owner.

The rumours don't trump the reality that a SKY deal is lined up, the reality is how much will it be? Last time the massive increase was given to us to cut BT's legs from under them and secure Rugby League for SKY for several years more. SKY want the game,...all they are saying is don't expect as much next time.

Out of the £200M last time only about 65% was for Superleague. A lot of money was wasted on the Championship to set up the MPG and spread monies to all clubs. Superleague are clear they will take all the money this time, so Superleague clubs will in the end preside over a reduced contract, but the SL clubs will not get a reduced amount. The championship will take a massive hit though.....

The 2 + 2 = 5 rumours don't understand the detail. They think if we get £150M this time it will be a disaster. If all that money goes just to Superleague then SL clubs will be on more TV money this time (and one again Championship clubs will get nowt this time). Also note the heavy hints and moves to create a 10 club SL 2022....a 1/10th. share of the TV money will be bigger than a 1/12th share as well

The future of Rugby League is not France, it is not North America, it is an English TV deal for English clubs. Why do people think Perez is behind a desk in Bradford (and not Ottawa) answering to Nigel Wood?

Sky don't care what teams are in Super League. They would only care about viewership numbers and ratings. Correct me if I am wrong but I think Toronto rate well on Tv. That's all Sky and other broadcasters care about.

Re: The Key to Success is... : Mon Jan 13, 2020 10:36 am  

Donnyman wrote:

The serious money runs into thousands of $$Millions that increases as more potash is extracted from Brazilian mines. The $5 million plus a year that backs Toronto Wolfpack goes on as long as the owner goes on. You could say the same for Huddersfield or any club who is dependent on a sub from the owner.

The rumours don't trump the reality that a SKY deal is lined up, the reality is how much will it be? Last time the massive increase was given to us to cut BT's legs from under them and secure Rugby League for SKY for several years more. SKY want the game,...all they are saying is don't expect as much next time.

Out of the £200M last time only about 65% was for Superleague. A lot of money was wasted on the Championship to set up the MPG and spread monies to all clubs. Superleague are clear they will take all the money this time, so Superleague clubs will in the end preside over a reduced contract, but the SL clubs will not get a reduced amount. The championship will take a massive hit though.....

The 2 + 2 = 5 rumours don't understand the detail. They think if we get £150M this time it will be a disaster. If all that money goes just to Superleague then SL clubs will be on more TV money this time (and one again Championship clubs will get nowt this time). Also note the heavy hints and moves to create a 10 club SL 2022....a 1/10th. share of the TV money will be bigger than a 1/12th share as well

The future of Rugby League is not France, it is not North America, it is an English TV deal for English clubs. Why do people think Perez is behind a desk in Bradford (and not Ottawa) answering to Nigel Wood?

Apologies, double post