Re: Catalans sign Folau : Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:32 am  

RHINO-MARK wrote:

SL has allowed druggies & women beaters into its comp with open arms so it had nowhere to go in this instance.
My own pov is he shouldnt be allowed but its done now i hope he gets hammered everywhere he plays.

We now live in an age where saying the right thing is more important than doing the right thing.

The twitter/social media is disproportionate though. It's a safe bet calling out someone who goes against the majority opinion.

I think the vast majority will actually think that whoever thought we'd have SBW and Israel Folau who would walk into any team in the world in either code playing in SL this season! Crazy!

Re: Catalans sign Folau : Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:34 am  

batleyrhino wrote:

I’d hope that at every ground there would be a few rounds on “There’s only one Keegan Hirst” whenever Catalans play. The fans need to be very clear that this kind of intolerance, dressed up in religious robes, is not welcome in our sport.

Did you sing that everytime Zak played for Leeds after his comments to James Child or does it only apply to other clubs?

Re: Catalans sign Folau : Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:47 am  

Marty Grrrrrrrrrr! wrote:

Did you sing that everytime Zak played for Leeds after his comments to James Child or does it only apply to other clubs?

Whilst not excusing what Zac did in the slightest, and he does come across as the archetypal 'big daft lad', i think there is a difference between saying something stupid in the heat of the moment, and repeatedly posting what does amount to hate speech against a particular part of the community on your social media platforms.

Re: Catalans sign Folau : Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:52 am  

flipper wrote:

Whilst not excusing what Zac did in the slightest, and he does come across as the archetypal 'big daft lad', i think there is a difference between saying something stupid in the heat of the moment, and repeatedly posting what does amount to hate speech against a particular part of the community on your social media platforms.

So aggressively calling a gay person a homophobic term in a heated exchange is not as bad as a person holding old fashioned religious beliefs believed by millions world wide?

Re: Catalans sign Folau : Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:57 am  

Ah ok so homophobic comments are acceptable if done in the heat of battle then? Just so we are all clear.

That will probably excuse what Bateman did when glassing someone too. All in the heat of the moment. Perfectly reasonable, rational, excusable behaviour then. Wigan was right to stand by their guy then.

All a storm in a tea cup caused by the hypocrisy of other clubs jealous they didnt get him and in a months time we all be talking about what a great player he is.

Re: Catalans sign Folau : Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:08 am  

exiledrhino wrote:

So aggressively calling a gay person a homophobic term in a heated exchange is not as bad as a person holding old fashioned religious beliefs believed by millions world wide?

In my opinion it depends what you do with those views.

If someone called me something derogatory, then apologised and made efforts to atone, I would view that more 'favourably' than someone who repeatedly spouted hate to hundreds of thousands of people against a particularly part of the community whatever reason you are hating them for.

I quite possibly deal with people on a daily basis who hold views on whatever that don't fit with my own view of the world, but unless they share those views with me, I am non the wiser.

To be absolutely clear, neither are acceptable in my view.

Re: Catalans sign Folau : Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:50 am  

I think SL is tolerant enough to not worry too much about Folau's views.

Keegan Hirst/Gareth Thomas both received a good platform to share their life experience's and received overwhelmingly positive reactions (bar maybe a few twitter trolls).

For them to look to exclude someone in the name of tolerance just seems a bit more than ironic to me. It will also more isolate conservative religious people of which there are many in SL and the NRL because of south sea island representation, more than Folau could isolate gay people IMO. There has been a rift in Australian RU just because of this.

Re: Catalans sign Folau : Wed Jan 29, 2020 10:58 am  

exiledrhino wrote:

I think SL is tolerant enough to not worry too much about Folau's views.

Keegan Hirst/Gareth Thomas both received a good platform to share their life experience's and received overwhelmingly positive reactions (bar maybe a few twitter trolls).

For them to look to exclude someone in the name of tolerance just seems a bit more than ironic to me. It will also more isolate conservative religious people of which there are many in SL and the NRL because of south sea island representation, more than Folau could isolate gay people IMO. There has been a rift in Australian RU just because of this.

Is homophobia better than racism? Would someone who had aired racist intolerance be welcomed? Or is it ok because it’s ‘just homophobia’?

And let’s get this difference right between what is his ‘opinion’ and where that has become hate speech.

Re: Catalans sign Folau : Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:00 am  

Marty Grrrrrrrrrr! wrote:

Did you sing that everytime Zak played for Leeds after his comments to James Child or does it only apply to other clubs?

No, however I did tell him to his face he'd been a pillock when I saw him. He agreed, I didn't feel a need to take it any further.

Zak is/was the very definition of a big daft lad. My opinion (which could be wrong) is that he didn't fully understand the offence he was causing and threw an unacceptable slur at someone with the intent of showing them that they'd made the wrong decision and he wanted them to know it. I see the actions of Folau differently, in my mind it's more serious and he clearly doesn't believe he's done anything wrong.

Re: Catalans sign Folau : Wed Jan 29, 2020 11:07 am  

Seth wrote:

Is homophobia better than racism? Would someone who had aired racist intolerance be welcomed? Or is it ok because it’s ‘just homophobia’?

And let’s get this difference right between what is his ‘opinion’ and where that has become hate speech.

Seth, good point. Hate is hate and it's not good in any circumstance. It's also not limited to a certain phobia or people group, even though LGBT/people of colour have often been targets for hate.

I'd say there's no way of ranking one area of hate over another.

The difference here is that the views Folau espoused are more nuanced than the blanket term homophobia gives credit for. He's expressing views through a religious context, and has (as far as I know) not incited violence or aggression towards LGBT people.

He's from a conservative religious tongan culture, where the vast majority are likely to share his views. Do we have the right to demand that these people should share our more modern and secular view of the world?

Overall I think there is just a massive double standard of who we are/aren't allowed to be morally outraged at and who we aren't. Some players past actions are swept under the carpet (I seem to remember Ben Cockayne having a racist rant at a taxi driver), and no one seems to care.

Some years ago, Folau's comments would have probably been pretty damaging to LGBT people, but I don't think that's the world we live in anymore.