Re: New York delay until 2022? : Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:52 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Is that there is a domestic RL competition already in parts of the states. It's the gap in quality just too significant for that comp to be built on and expanded or was there some politics preventing this ?

The USARL are a 2011 grass roots competition attempting to build bottom up.

Perez and Wilby are using the "top down" model. They just need to find Argyles for Ottawa and NY.......

Re: New York delay until 2022? : Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:31 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

And could you explain the rationale behind planting new clubs in N .America, to the detriment of existing clubs in the UK (assuming that the league will not be expanded).

If super league bosses were concerned that additional clubs could affect existing clubs chances of success, the game would never grow, would it?

It's about spreading the game, not about worrying whether existing clubs chances of success are slightly reduced.

I think that a large percentage of posters who criticise North American clubs do so out of fear.

Re: New York delay until 2022? : Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:25 am  

The Silent H wrote:

If super league bosses were concerned that additional clubs could affect existing clubs chances of success, the game would never grow, would it?

It's about spreading the game, not about worrying whether existing clubs chances of success are slightly reduced.

I think that a large percentage of posters who criticise North American clubs do so out of fear.

This isn't about "affecting the SL clubs chance of success", it's about not destroying SL with an untried, untested "raft" of new clubs.
Even IF an influx of N . American clubs is somehow going to take the sport to the "next level" (which is one hell of a long shot), why risk the whols sport on a gamble.
The whole thing smacks of a brown envelope being passed under the table.
Without any underpinning of the game over there and significant time and money invested to create "junior" clubs etc, N. America is lost without English and Aussie players.
Are you really suggesting that splitting the comp, having half N. American and half European clubs, making up a 12 club SL is real progress ?

We may swap unfashionable "pit town" names, like Wigan, Castleford, Wakefield, for New York and Montreal etc, which does sound more glamorous.
However, just how long could they (N. American clubs) rely on recruiting from over here, not to mention the huge costs in getting clubs accross the Atlantic every other week - it's absolute madness.

This isn't about fear, it's about the game being gambled away on a maybe.

Re: New York delay until 2022? : Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:41 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

This isn't about "affecting the SL clubs chance of success", it's about not destroying SL with an untried, untested "raft" of new clubs.
Even IF an influx of N . American clubs is somehow going to take the sport to the "next level" (which is one hell of a long shot), why risk the whols sport on a gamble.
The whole thing smacks of a brown envelope being passed under the table.
Without any underpinning of the game over there and significant time and money invested to create "junior" clubs etc, N. America is lost without English and Aussie players.
Are you really suggesting that splitting the comp, having half N. American and half European clubs, making up a 12 club SL is real progress ?

We may swap unfashionable "pit town" names, like Wigan, Castleford, Wakefield, for New York and Montreal etc, which does sound more glamorous.
However, just how long could they (N. American clubs) rely on recruiting from over here, not to mention the huge costs in getting clubs accross the Atlantic every other week - it's absolute madness.

This isn't about fear, it's about the game being gambled away on a maybe.

How exactly is super league going to be destroyed? Possibly 10+ players next year and perhaps the year after.

English teams are not going to disappear. Case in point Widnes. Their crowds haven't nosedived and still run an academy iirc, therefore developing players whilst in the Championship.

Re: New York delay until 2022? : Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:44 am  

The Silent H wrote:

I think that a large percentage of posters who criticise North American clubs do so out of fear.

There goes the bait Fishing again?

Re: New York delay until 2022? : Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:58 am  

Donnyman wrote:

There goes the bait Fishing again?

Why don't you add something worthwhile and factual for a change, instead of made up nonsense combined with childish emoji's.

Have you actually listened to Wilby's interview on Chasing Kangaroo's podcast?

Re: New York delay until 2022? : Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:04 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

This isn't about "affecting the SL clubs chance of success", it's about not destroying SL with an untried, untested "raft" of new clubs.Even IF an influx of N . American clubs is somehow going to take the sport to the "next level" (which is one hell of a long shot), why risk the whole sport on a gamble.

There's no evidence at all that Superleague intend taking any such gamble, there is no evidence of any gamble to take. All I have seen is a determination to get back to our English roots 2022.

Nobody from North America wants to make big investments in Rugby league even less so since the Aussie Argylle blew countless $$Milions on ending up at the bottom of SL with no wins and players not interested going there unless it's a last resort. No "fans" come here and nobody in NATV sports wants to pay a penny. The Silent one will take you round in circles on this so enjoy the ride.

The more interesting aspect of this is Ottawa and New York being floated for north American investors to get on board with. This is the actual gamble, people paying good money to set up an opportunity for rich Americans to sweep in. However I can only think you have to be an absolute Rugby league nut and worth countless £Millions to want to do so.

Time is ticking towards the new season 2021 start of March.... This could be the "Final countdown" to an end of this nonsesnse, unless any real major North American investors come forward. There weren't any at the launch of Ottawa and New York. Time yet

Re: New York delay until 2022? : Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:05 am  

The Silent H wrote:

How exactly is super league going to be destroyed? Possibly 10+ players next year and perhaps the year after.

Is that POSSIBLY 10+ players next year and then how many will we possibly lose the year after if you got your way and the north Americans' came into super league.

The Silent H wrote:

English teams are not going to disappear. Case in point Widnes. Their crowds haven't nosedived and still run an academy iirc, therefore developing players whilst in the Championship.

Quite right, Widnes are doing quite nicely now and I'm sure they have aspirations of getting back into super league as soon as, I'm also sure though that they don't see themselves as a feeder club for any future north American invasion which would make it even harder to achieve their goal of getting back where they feel they belong.

Re: New York delay until 2022? : Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:10 am  

The Silent H wrote:

How exactly is super league going to be destroyed? Possibly 10+ players next year and perhaps the year after.

English teams are not going to disappear. Case in point Widnes. Their crowds haven't nosedived and still run an academy iirc, therefore developing players whilst in the Championship.

Widnes may be ok for now but, of course, they harbour ambitions for a return to SL.
IF / when there are 4 N. American clubs in SL and possibly Catalan and Toulouse, what will happen to the chances of promotion for Widnes and any other "relegated" clubs ?
What will happen to supporter numbers, especially for the so called big events and most importantly, where are the players going to come from.
If you lop off 4/5 clubs from SL, they will reduce their investment in junior/academy players.
This isn't fear, it's simple economics

It's worth remembering that Toronto were going to convert Gridiron players and tap into the Union market for their recruitment.
How many players have they managed to poach from these sports so far ?
They haven't been overly successful in attracting English players either and you want to add another how many N. American clubs ??

I'm absolutely against chucking ANY club from the comp but, Donny did make some valid points.(dont tell him that I said so )

Re: New York delay until 2022? : Mon Jul 13, 2020 11:57 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Widnes may be ok for now but, of course, they harbour ambitions for a return to SL.

Haven't Widnes been there and done that?

As a Superleague club they didn't really add much to the competition with exception of a few interesting Cheshire derbies. Even as World Champions in the 80s they struggled to get crowds above the 7k mark.

Leigh and Halifax can be added to the pile. They are good part time teams that want to be more but fail financially whenever they get up to Superleague.

Bradford, depressingly, seem to be joining this group of teams that are unsustainable as full time clubs. You would also fear for HKR if Hudgell gets fed up and takes his ball home. London are the same.

The only hope is for new blood is in other teams and investors wanting to back them. Now if North America is too exotic for our pastry loving palates then we need to find more local projects that need backing. South Yorkshire, Newcastle, Cumbria, South France, The Midlands, Rochdale/Oldham all sound interesting but have never been able to get significant backing.

So until we can find a millionaire that believes in Cumbrian Rugby League then the clubs are were people are prepared to spend the money and at the moment that is North America.
So we either have to find some backers to fund some new blood or we keep on sending our medium sized clubs into Superleague like lemmings over a cliff.