Re: New SKY sports deal : Thu Nov 26, 2020 7:43 am  

Pumpetypump wrote:

McBully has gone on record acknowledging the faults of Bradford in the past and I am happy to do so too. But that surely does that mean we are not allowed to mention what's going on right now? Rovers have earned their place in SL, but I think the gripe is with Hudgell not Hull KR. His distasteful spat with Chalmers, was partly about a clash of personalities (Chalmers is a gobsh1te admittedly), but also because Chalmers publicly and persistently sought to stand up for the championship and C1 clubs in the face of the levels of self-interest we've never seen before.

I won't give an exhaustive account of the demise of Bradford but you are of course correct that those who were at the club itself are not blameless. The money raised by the whole game for Bradford many years ago under Peter Hood was a wonderful thing and I'm sure we all remain very grateful for it. He did indeed monumentally eff that up and we went bust anyway. That's a case of our own failings.

On the flip side, as I'm afraid I'll say ad nauseum, we had backers actively wanting to take control at Bradford worth millions, and each time they were rejected. That helped install a cycle of failure.

This idea that the money raised came from the whole game is utter nonsense. The vast majority came from the 'pledge' scheme with some notable contributions from the Chairman at Widnes. The buckets were a total embarrassment whose contribution was tiny. During a similar situation at Wakefield the fans point blank refused to contribute to the saving of their own club let alone the Bulls.

Re: New SKY sports deal : Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:28 am  

Bulls Boy 2011 wrote:

Can't see how SKY was involved in the whole 2017 season scandal in the post you quoted considering SKY don't care about the Championship or League 1. Or how SKY was involved in the SL club vote to take our funding and distribute amongst themselves? Or how SKY was involved in the vetting process for our owners which prevented people with money taking over in favour of Marc Green and later in Andrew Chalmers? Honestly can't even see SKY being involved in the potential return of Bradford. If the Bulls do get the 12th spot it's entirely to the benefit of the other SL teams as we do take a very good away following and with the 'return' to SL I can see us taking a fair few. The big teams will all have 10-15k gates against us at home, and the likes of Hull and Wakefield would benefit from a Bradford away following.

I enjoyed all your Bradford posts and analysis, very interesting indeed very informative and of course your analysis of SKY that they are not in any way controlling the game was also bang on. The promotion of the club in order for it to bring a large paying fanbase back into Superleague is understandable when crowds have gone down in recent years, however all the indications are and all the bets are Bulls would be likely to just go straight back down.

I cannot see this for one second. To ride roughshod over so called "more deserving clubs" to place Bulls in SL for their large fan base, on reduced SKY money that may well help a bottom place finish and relegation then allow them to dissapear back to the Championship has no logic, and is probably an insult to the Superleague chairmen who simply are not stupid. Nor are those who are running the Bulls at this present time.

There is a regular assumption that the current set up will just go on and on despite the Elephant in the room of the new SKY deal. It's a fact that a new format of a 2x10 club SL was not just suggested but voted on. It's a fact that so called expansion was tried but the final analysis of this by people engaged to look at the validity of overseas clubs decided that such clubs add nothing to the game here, but certainly take away players and erm.......

Provide no away fans.

So it's fairly easy to stand back and see that a new SKY deal will lead to a new set up and that may continue the work of dismantling the geographical expansion of the game (for thats all it was no new players or new TV deals came in), it may change the line up of Superleague 2022, and above all it may include Bradford Bulls exemption from relegation at the end of 2021. I don't think for a second that Nigel Wood is organising for Bradford to boost crowds in Superleague 2021 and then just slide back to Championship oblivion......

Re: New SKY sports deal : Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:50 am  

peddling the Bradford myth, again?

Re: New SKY sports deal : Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:57 am  

M@islebugs wrote:

This idea that the money raised came from the whole game is utter nonsense. The vast majority came from the 'pledge' scheme with some notable contributions from the Chairman at Widnes. The buckets were a total embarrassment whose contribution was tiny. During a similar situation at Wakefield the fans point blank refused to contribute to the saving of their own club let alone the Bulls.

Just to correct you, the collections/ donations at Wakefield were deliberately kept away from the club and put in trust for the incoming administration, if not it would have been spaffed away by the doomed previous owners.
I think many suggested that Bradford should have done the same but, IIRC they chose to try and use the monies to try and plug some holes in the sinking ship - a HUGE mistake, which cost Bradford a huge amount of good will.

Re: New SKY sports deal : Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:01 am  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Just to correct you, the collections/ donations at Wakefield were deliberately kept away from the club and put in trust for the incoming administration, if not it would have been spaffed away by the doomed previous owners.
I think many suggested that Bradford should have done the same but, IIRC they chose to try and use the monies to try and plug some holes in the sinking ship - a HUGE mistake, which cost Bradford a huge amount of good will.

one of the rare occurrences where we agree, Wakefield have a planning submission in to extend Belle Vue, Bradford want promoting because the RFL own their ground. I would rather see York added to SL than Bradford, they gave us sponge fingers and a remote control car for the kicking tee... more crass than class!

Re: New SKY sports deal : Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:42 am  

WestEndThinker wrote:

Bradford want promoting because the RFL own their ground.

Inventing your own myth there

Re: New SKY sports deal : Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:56 am  

Donnyman wrote:

Inventing your own myth there

He should have put that the RFL want Bradford promoting so that they can collect some rent on their "asset"

Re: New SKY sports deal : Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:10 pm  

wrencat1873 wrote:

Just to correct you, the collections/ donations at Wakefield were deliberately kept away from the club and put in trust for the incoming administration, if not it would have been spaffed away by the doomed previous owners.
I think many suggested that Bradford should have done the same but, IIRC they chose to try and use the monies to try and plug some holes in the sinking ship - a HUGE mistake, which cost Bradford a huge amount of good will.

How much?

Isn't it the case that Supporters Trust actually advised against raising money to pay the clubs debts and that a buyer came in and came to an agreement with the creditors.

And you still came bottom which the Bulls never have. Your complaints about the Bulls possibly, and against the advice of many experienced supporters (me included) going into SL is allegedly premised on the arbitrary nature of the RL's rules which means they can do what they like. Well you finished bottom and weren't relegated and the other clubs weren't promoted on merit either.

Re: New SKY sports deal : Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:19 pm  

Donnyman wrote:

I enjoyed all your Bradford posts and analysis, very interesting indeed very informative and of course your analysis of SKY that they are not in any way controlling the game was also bang on.

Thanks mate, just blows my mind that people on here genuinely think the RFL have 'helped' over the years. They would have helped if they stuck to their own rules regarding liquidation etc. And if people think SKY are controlling the game then they are delusional. SKY may say to SL we want to show a 12 team comp. Everything else is down to SL and the RFL. £40million is pocket change to SKY and that's what our current TV deal is. If they genuinely cared they would just give the same deal next time (technically might be lower in todays money in terms of inflation etc) but yet they are giving a reduced deal. It's down to the SL and RFL how that money is then distributed. SKY hold the rights to Champ and League 1 yet only show Summer Bash and Million Pound Game. Why not a big regular season game? End of the day, SKY's interests are in Football, NFL, Cricket and F1 as they are more lucrative and have their own dedicated channels. RL is just an afterthought unfortunatley.

Donnyman wrote:

The promotion of the club in order for it to bring a large paying fanbase back into Superleague is understandable when crowds have gone down in recent years, however all the indications are and all the bets are Bulls would be likely to just go straight back down.

I cannot see this for one second. To ride roughshod over so called "more deserving clubs" to place Bulls in SL for their large fan base, on reduced SKY money that may well help a bottom place finish and relegation then allow them to dissapear back to the Championship has no logic, and is probably an insult to the Superleague chairmen who simply are not stupid. Nor are those who are running the Bulls at this present time.

The thing is, these days we don't have a large fanbase. We have a faithful base of support which happens to just be bigger than a lot of Champ clubs and some SL sides. But it's far from large. In 2019 Widnes had a fair few crowds bigger than ours, albeit we did have a 6k and a few 5k crowds before a 7k crowd for the 'last game at Odsal'. Even Leigh had a couple of 5k crowds. When they were in SL in 2017 Leigh regularly got 6k-7k crowds with a couple that were 8k-9k. Their lowest I think was like 4,950 against Wakey. Arguably in terms of fans Widnes and Leigh would be good shouts. Not sure how they both travelled though in all fairness. The thing is, the track record of Elstone, SL and the RFL is that they never think things through. Everything seems to be geared to the short term gains. So it wouldn't surprise me if they parachuted in Bradford for 2021. Clubs get money for away crowds. Bradford get a few games on air. Bradford vs Leeds is back three times. Maybe 4. Money makers, cash cows. Then Bradford finish bottom and go down.

I agree with you that maybe the SL chairmen aren't that stupid. But they have proven in the past that they are that greedy that they may just see Bradford as a way to boost their finances from the gate and gain money from the reduced central finding that Bradford would have to 'sacrifice' for the 12th SL spot. Who knows what the people running the Bulls are like? We don't really know much, just like Hood, Khan, Green, Moore, Chalmers and Lowe. We didn't know what they were going to be like. Everyone liked Khan and Green. Yes, under Green we were relegated (poor squad) yet had one of the best seasons in 2015 and nearly got promoted again but lost to Wakefield. It wasn't until after that it was revealed he was a right crook. Chalmers said all the right things, built us up from League 1, got Kear in (a masterstroke tbf) everyone loved him except SL chairmen, then after he'd gone it was revealed he didn't have money. Didn't pay pensions etc.

All I 'know' about Wood is that he pretty much chose the name Blue Sox for Halifax which went down like a lead balloon. Then when he was Chief Executive didn't they get relegated, come under all sorts of financial troubles? The as head of RFL he obviously didn't do a great job, got paid off. Don't have a clue what he's doing as CEO of International Rugby League. So not a great track record. Yet has been allowed to take over the Bulls. Sawyer to be fair I think has done a good job with Dewsbury but he'll had over to Wood soon. Who again, doesn't have money?

Donnyman wrote:

There is a regular assumption that the current set up will just go on and on despite the Elephant in the room of the new SKY deal. It's a fact that a new format of a 2x10 club SL was not just suggested but voted on. It's a fact that so called expansion was tried but the final analysis of this by people engaged to look at the validity of overseas clubs decided that such clubs add nothing to the game here, but certainly take away players and erm.......

Provide no away fans.

So it's fairly easy to stand back and see that a new SKY deal will lead to a new set up and that may continue the work of dismantling the geographical expansion of the game (for thats all it was no new players or new TV deals came in), it may change the line up of Superleague 2022, and above all it may include Bradford Bulls exemption from relegation at the end of 2021. I don't think for a second that Nigel Wood is organising for Bradford to boost crowds in Superleague 2021 and then just slide back to Championship oblivion......

I hope there is a restructure in RL. In my opinion there needs to be. But when it happens. We need to stick with it. For the past 11 years we have chopped and changed systems. 14 team SL. One up, one down. Playoff system for SL as it makes money and the GF is the biggest event of the year, 1st in Championship goes up. I understand that this has 'failed' in the past as teams have come up and gone back down and gone bust. But that's down to the individual club to not do that. It's only fair to reward on field success. Expansion can come later to make it a 16 team game ala NRL if we can.

The only way I would accept Bradford taking SL. Is if they have had this guarantee. One year reduced funding (unfortunately this will be non-negotiable, it shouldn't happen regardless of the team, the 'pie' should be shared equally), whipping boys but at the end there will be no relegation for you. Then for 2022, two more teams will join the SL (maybe top 2 in 2021 Champ, or top 1 plus 1 'expansion' like York/Toulouse). Then 2022 features relegation and promotion. I do see your point about Wood organizing Bradford to go up, just to come back down and I sincerely hope your right.

Sorry for the long post guys! I just find it mental that a 12th spot opens in the top division and it should be a time for excitement, ambition, teams wanting that spot. It should be a fair crack at the top level. An open and clear plan for the future and instead we have worry, teams not wanting to apply. A disadvantage to the team coming up. An outsider looking in would genuinely think the SL is an 'old boys' club and very greedy/self serving. And in my own opinion it's an absolute disgrace that TWO clubs voted for the 12th team to have even less money (£800,000 I believe) than they are getting. Think that on it's own shows which teams are struggling and are scared for their place.

Re: New SKY sports deal : Thu Nov 26, 2020 12:44 pm  

M@islebugs wrote:

How much?

Isn't it the case that Supporters Trust actually advised against raising money to pay the clubs debts and that a buyer came in and came to an agreement with the creditors.

And you still came bottom which the Bulls never have. Your complaints about the Bulls possibly, and against the advice of many experienced supporters (me included) going into SL is allegedly premised on the arbitrary nature of the RL's rules which means they can do what they like. Well you finished bottom and weren't relegated and the other clubs weren't promoted on merit either.

Oh dear
You are still crying over the MPG defeat to Trinity, a game that was an integral part of the structure at that time, where despite Trinity being mickey poor, you (Bradford) still couldn't beat them and we had the infamous James Lowes "dummy spit" after the game.
Sounds like you want those rules changing too, to help Bradford get back into SL.

FWIW it was an awful system and I'm glad that it's gone.

I totally agree about the RFL and it's ability to run the show "properly" and no doubt, just as I stated previously, this could very well end up in the courts.
When the decision o the 12th club is finally made, there will be 7 (now 6) very unhappy clubs and their supporters.

For me, Toulouse offer something different and Fev are the "rightful" candidates, having been losing finalists last season.
Leigh also look to be a "solid" candidate.

I guess we will have to wait and see but, The RFL and SL have seemingly found a way to alienate huge numbers of RL fans and at a time when we need every last one of them and that's before the TV deal puts another nail in the RL coffin.

We could get rid of Elstone and share his "costs" to some of the lower league clubs, after all, it doesn't look like he will be improving on the previous TV deal (understatement)